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From: "Jason Gastrich" <usenetspam1@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: Hi Davey
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:08:13 GMT
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Uncle Davey wrote:
>> Uncle Davey wrote:
>>>> Uncle Davey wrote:
>>>>>> Uncle Davey wrote:
>>>>>>> Uzytkownik <hdsienkiewicz@yahoo.com> napisal w wiadomosci
>>>>>>> news:1104741408.314216.10300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>> Jason Gastrich wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Davey,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Did you have a good weekend?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It wasn't that magnificent, thanks. I had to go to Tczew on
>>>>>>> Sunday for an inventory count, and the road wasn't fantastic,
>>>>>>> but thanks for asking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What's new?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not much. Lots of work to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Davey posted and said he was leaving the groups for a bit,
>>>>>>>> Jason.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I didn't last long.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, I'm still gonna be posting hardly anything. No time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder what he'll think of
>>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/hdsienkiewicz/JG_DOC_A.jpg ?
>>>>>>>> And isn't email a better place for chit-chat?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll tell you you what I think, David, I think it was a court
>>>>>>> error.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my experience court clerks make a lot of errors, after all,
>>>>>>> who's gonna sue 'em? I remember the patience I had to have with
>>>>>>> them in my limited experience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't read enough yet since getting back from my inventory
>>>>>>> count attendances all over this country to know whether Jason
>>>>>>> says it is a court error, but I simply do not believe he would
>>>>>>> have been dumb enough to state 200 USD if he knew very well you
>>>>>>> could get hold of something that said 2000 USD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Uncle Davey
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow, Davey hit the nail on the head. This is exactly right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>> I have the odd bit of discernment here and there as you know, and
>>>>> now I have a little message for you, which you are at liberty to
>>>>> take on or not depending on whether the Spirit confirms these
>>>>> words to you.
>>>>>
>>>>> David Sienkiewicz is not so far gone as to forge changes to
>>>>> documents. This is something he will not do, according to my
>>>>> reading of him, nevertheless he is so prejudiced against the
>>>>> evangelical side that he automatically assumes some blame on your
>>>>> part when the document says something other than what you
>>>>> expected it to.
>>>>>
>>>>> My reading of the way Durango Bill has added this to his site is
>>>>> that he actually knows very well that it was a court error, and is
>>>>> slagging you off for saying 'no' when you I dare say were fairly
>>>>> sure that the note said 200USD because you hadn't noticed that it
>>>>> came back with an error on saying 2000 USD. This has been taken
>>>>> in a recent post by Sienkiewicz to mean that Bill also thinks you
>>>>> were lying about the 200USD, but here again he shows his
>>>>> prejudice, as the way Bill phrases it gives the game away that he
>>>>> knew it was only an oversight on your part. Otherwise he would
>>>>> have stressed the matter differently.
>>>>
>>>> Wise words. My thoughts exactly.
>>>>
>>>>> David's got you lumped in with the Benny Hinns and their ilk,
>>>>> which is a great pity for two reasons, firstly because you are
>>>>> not of their ilk, and are truly God's saved child, even with all
>>>>> your faults - no bigger than mine I hasten to add - and this I
>>>>> know because it takes an experienced person from within
>>>>> Evangelical Christianity to discern the difference, they cannot.
>>>>
>>>> Good point.
>>>>
>>>> Benny Hinn is a fraud for a number of reasons. This can be
>>>> verified at http://apologeticsindex.org. In fact, it's a huge
>>>> archive or frauds.
>>>>
>>>>> That is why you have to be more careful
>>>>> in the way some things are presented. You have the right, as
>>>>> someone who has dedicated a full-time level of work to
>>>>> evangelism, to be supported in your cost of living by other
>>>>> believers, and this is absolutely no different to the priests of
>>>>> catholicism and the vicars of anglicanism that they would not
>>>>> give a second thought to and whom they do not attack as
>>>>> fraudulent because they live from the gifts of believers. They
>>>>> are sensitive about it, my suggestion is that you are simply up
>>>>> front about the fact that you do live from the love gifts of
>>>>> God's people in the same way as other full time Christian workers
>>>>> do, and be a bit careful with the way you present certain things
>>>>> that help you make a living. You can see how far they go to
>>>>> misunderstand this and behave as though you were building marble
>>>>> halls on the backs of these donations, rather than them being an
>>>>> essential part of any full-time ministry, and no different to the
>>>>> money raising that goes on in any church that has full-time
>>>>> ministers.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. I suppose you
>>>> thought it was pertinent.
>>>
>>> I am writing it for their sakes, so that they can see that they are
>>> not applying the same criterion when they should be between your
>>> living and the living of other ministers whom they don't criticise.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The second reason why it's a pity is that if all this energy were
>>>>> being given by David Sienkiewicz in exposing real religious
>>>>> charlatans, then you and I would probably be among the first to
>>>>> applaud it.
>>>>
>>>> Amen.
>>>>
>>>>> It's true that we are only promised that the sheep and
>>>>> the goats in the Church are separated at the end of time, but the
>>>>> occasional exposure of a wolf in sheep's clothing here and there -
>>>>> even by a non-Christian, is something I would not get in the way
>>>>> of.
>>>>
>>>> Amen.
>>>>
>>>>> As it is he is like someone pulling at your fleece, and although
>>>>> it doesn't come off whenever there is a cry of pain from the
>>>>> sheep he thinks is suspect he says "hmnn. that sounded a bit
>>>>> wolfy, that did, better yank some more". The more he tugs away at
>>>>> that fleece, and even some of the hairs come of in his hand, the
>>>>> more he thinks he is about to get the fleece off and reveal the
>>>>> bristly grey lupine coat beneath, but all he is doing is
>>>>> confirming his prejudices. That is, until they fall, which, God
>>>>> willing, they will, and he will see himself an imperfect man
>>>>> fighting another imperfect man for the simple reason that this
>>>>> other imperfect man has been received by God through Christ.
>>>>
>>>> Good words.
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe this is the way God is calling him. Maybe he has to go
>>>>> through this wrestling match with you in order to get a blessing.
>>>>> Israel was always a wrestler, and he will not let you go unless
>>>>> God bless him, even if it means a metaphorical wound on the
>>>>> thigh. This is of course not good news for you as the one who
>>>>> gets to play the role of the angel in that Genesis 32 scenario,
>>>>> but in the end if you can turn his trying to cause you a penalty
>>>>> into you causing him a Peniel, then everyone is blessed in the
>>>>> end. That's why I think it may have been hasty for you to promise
>>>>> not to speak to him. He needs mercy and love, in the end, like
>>>>> every sinner. And the gospel is as we read to the Jew first and
>>>>> then to the Greek. It's always a priviledge to be able to take
>>>>> God's own truth to God's own people. I think that, hard as it is,
>>>>> you're gonna need to engage him. My "prophesy", if you wanna
>>>>> call it that, is that David Sienkiewicz is actually in the Elect,
>>>>> but will only realise that against his will and will only be
>>>>> brought to the Mercy Seat a-kickin' and a-scratchin' and
>>>>> a-fleece-pullin'. Ignoring him isn't gonna do it. If you go
>>>>> fishing, there's no point in cutting your line when there's a
>>>>> marlin on the end of it. You've gotta reel that big fish in. With
>>>>> a really big fish it can take other fishermen to hold the rod
>>>>> with you and stop it getting yanked out of your hands, and I can
>>>>> do that bit, but it's your fish.
>>>>
>>>> I have been thinking about this prophesy a bit. Do you have the
>>>> gift of prophesy? Have you prophesied other things that have
>>>> happened? Have you ever made a false prophesy?
>>>
>>> I have only made one other prophesy, when I was forced into it by
>>> the Andrew Sheldrake that I mention in this article.
>>> I wrote it three years ago, almost, as you can see.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.google.co.uk/groups?q=uncle+davey+sheldrake&hl=en&lr=&selm=3c7b3d89%2410%40news.ptt.ru&rnum=1
>>>
>>>
>>> You notice I call him a very charismatic person. The full meaning of
>>> that you can understand better than the people I was writing to
>>> about it at the time, for he was very much into the Charismatic
>>> movement, telling me that I wasn't growing in grace if I didn't
>>> start developing spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues,
>>> healing (he reckoned I had a 'leg difference' and tried to 'heal'
>>> me of it, but it didn't do any good, but thsi was down to my lack
>>> of faith, of course)
>>>
>>> We were in Berlin, it was the Summer of 1982, and we had gone over
>>> there to do some summer work as German language practice and shared
>>> the same accommodation. He was mobbing me continually to speak in
>>> tongues and prophesy, and was continually making prophesies about my
>>> life, not of which have come true so far. The one he was most sure
>>> of is that I would marry a girl he picked out of my college
>>> photograph who was called Sarah, and oddly enough he picked out
>>> someone who was in the Christian Union (she wasn't wearing any
>>> badge or anything) which was already enough to persuade him that
>>> he'd had my future wife revealed to him as a dead cert, (she was a
>>> good looking girl, but nothing came of it as I discovered that her
>>> views were rather irredeemably woolly and liberal, and I found this
>>> rather offputting, and she hardly came to any of the meetings
>>> anyway, and went to some Anglican Church which I don't think I
>>> would have been very comfortable in). Anyway, he was mobbing me to
>>> make some prophesy, until I really had had quite enough of this and
>>> was really on the point of regretting that I had come out there
>>> with him to be made to feel like a second class Christian, and I
>>> don't know why, but I said "OK, I prophesy that your future wife
>>> will be Kirsten". This was a red headed girl in the Lutheran Church
>>> Jugendgruppe at Steglitz, Berlin, where we were attending.
>>>
>>> I don't even know why I said it. I wished I hadn't, but in the worst
>>> case if it had been wrong, then the meaning is that I had no
>>> prophesy gift after all.
>>>
>>> I lost contact with Andrew Sheldrake over the years, he went his way
>>> and I went mine, and I tried to make contact with him a couple of
>>> times but neither of our hearts were particularly in it, as I think
>>> he was really upset with me when I failed to go to Germany for his
>>> wedding with Kirsten when I, after all, had prophesied it, but I had
>>> some other unavoidable engagement that I cannot even remember now
>>> what it was - most probably I was simply in debt as I was poor as a
>>> student and probably didn't have the money to go.
>>>
>>> I did manage some years down the track to get his phone number, but
>>> he wasn't massively interested in small talk with me, and I have to
>>> say I found his manner still rather terse. I myself had gotten into
>>> pretty bad backsliding and bad behaviour in the mean time, so I
>>> wasn't in a fit state to really be companionable to another
>>> Christian anyway.
>>>
>>> Since that time I haven't made any more prophesies, as such. Anyone
>>> who might be remotely interested can try and track down Andrew
>>> Sheldrake originally from Haywards Heath in Southern England to
>>> verify my claim to have made a true prophesy concerning his
>>> marriage, and one can also, if one is remotely interested, sift
>>> through the 8,700 articles on Usenet in this archive
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.google.co.uk/groups?q=+%22Uncle+Davey%22+author:noway%40jose.com&hl=en&lr=&scoring=d
>>>
>>> and another 3,000 under other munges that I can supply to those
>>> still hungry for more, to see if I have made any other prophesies
>>> since then. I don't remember any, although certainly I have shown on
>>> occasion much discernment about things that were happening or going
>>> to happen. I have also been able to make very accurate forecasts
>>> about the directions of currencies, interest rates and house prices
>>> in my professional life that helped anyone who listened to them
>>> prosper, as well as helping me to get the chunk of money which I
>>> lost in my divorce, which chunk is described and quantified in
>>> various parts of my posting history, that I don't need to return
>>> to. I wouldn't call them 'prophesies' though. I've never been able
>>> to foresee lottery numbers or stuff like that, which would be an
>>> abuse anyway, and I put the other stuff down to a certain gift of
>>> discernment.
>>>
>>> There are some outstanding predictions that I have made, such that
>>> Poland will become the first country in history to leave the
>>> European Union, and that Belarus will be free nine years from now.
>>> Again these are utterances of discernment, and not prophesies. I
>>> have also uttered that corals floated during the Flood and that at
>>> Babel each person received a unique language, rather than a family
>>> language, but these again are not prophesies, as apart from
>>> anything else they refer to past events, but we will only know at
>>> time's end what the truth of the matter is. I have a number of
>>> these, and I don't want to be unduly dogmatic about any of them, or
>>> one fine day I might wake up the leader of some dodgy sect, which
>>> is the last thing I need.
>>>
>>> And of course there is prophesy is art and in poetry, and here again
>>> the meaning of "prophesy" is different to that in the charismata.
>>> Akhmatova wrote "the poet is always right". This is more in the line
>>> of self-fulfilling prophesy.
>>>
>>> I will say that this current "prophesy" is more a matter of
>>> "discernment" than real prophesy, as I have no idea whether David
>>> actually needs your involvement to get saved, I merely have a
>>> conviction that this probably will happen, with or without you,
>>> although it would be more encouraging for you to be involved.
>>>
>>> If you decide not to be, you shouldn't feel guily, though, as an
>>> elect person will always come in one way or the other. This is the
>>> doctrine of Irresistible Grace. I just thought that it would be a
>>> great encouragement to you to reel him into the Kingdom.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm just curious. I know it's a real spiritual gift. I also know
>>>> that we can't just speak any old thing into existence, though.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't try to do that. It's a matter of discernment, and with
>>> discernment one thing is certainly true and that is, that people
>>> ought not to follow another Christian's discernment if it conflicts
>>> with their own discernment about something in their own lives.
>>> Discernment about what is good for another is only good if it
>>> doesn't overrule the discernment they have. If your commitment to
>>> ignoring David Sienkiewicz is spiritually discerned, then because
>>> it concerns your life it overrules my discernment that it would be
>>> good for you to continue.
>>>
>>> Otherwise discernment becomes an excuse for Christians to boss each
>>> other around on the basis of what seems right in their own eyes,
>>> which is something I am completely against and nothing but trouble
>>> lies that way. Positive exhortation is fine, but bossiness isn't
>>> fine, and to keep it that way we Christians need to remember that
>>> each of us has guidance from the Holy Spirit while we are not
>>> grieving the Spirit.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It's gonna take a lot of prayer, a lot of time, a lot of
>>>>> ego-bruising, a lot of re-adjustment of style, a lot of pain. But
>>>>> it's gonna be worth it, because that old Jew, as he calls himself,
>>>>> is gonna get born again. And there's gonna be rejoicing in heaven.
>>>>> Amen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Uncle Davey
>>>>
>>>> Maybe, maybe not. So far, I haven't seen any interest in the
>>>> person or love of Christ. All I see is scorn, bitterness, and
>>>> misused energy.
>>>
>>> Some people just get born that way, if you get my drift.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> At any rate, if you believe that he is going to get saved, then be
>>>> persistent in talking to him about Jesus Christ. Or consult God
>>>> and see which path He would have you take. As for me, I'm done
>>>> with him. Many times, he has told me that he will "bring down" me
>>>> and my ministry.
>>>
>>> Exactly. He has selected the one of us that his inner soul would
>>> like to bring him to God, and it isn't me.
>>>
>>> This is why I personally think it would be a pity to give up on him,
>>> and in your shoes I wouldn't, but like I just said, my guidance is
>>> for my life and your guidance is for your life.
>>>
>>>
>>>> He
>>>> takes every issue, no matter how small, and acts like they're HUGE,
>>>> while demanding countless responses from me, putting me down,
>>>> painting me in a bad light, etc. He can do this by himself as far
>>>> as I'm concerned. There was a time when Christ shook the dirt from
>>>> his shoes and this is my time.
>>>
>>> But Christ didn't do that to his worst persecutor, which was Saul of
>>> Tarsus.
>>>
>>> And what we have here is a Saul of Tarsus type, and his persecution
>>> of us is exactly what I would expect.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have much work to do. I need to press on and speak to people who
>>>> are actually willing to talk about Jesus, the mysteries of God, the
>>>> difference He has made in people's lives, the fruits of the Spirit,
>>>> the stories of the Bible, etc. You know. The exciting and
>>>> interesting things! This has been an overall poor place for
>>>> evangelism because there are precious few believers and far more
>>>> mockers, scoffers, God-haters, etc.
>>>>
>>>> If someone were to repent on usenet, they would probably just
>>>> leave. I could not see how they could possibly stick around and
>>>> face the evildoers that curse at Christians. They'd at least need
>>>> some healthy time away to grow in their faith.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's not the greatest place for newborn Christians, Jason. Aqui
>>> tienes milion veces razon. That's why I'm glad that someone I
>>> helped a lot when they came to faith in another group which is a
>>> complete and perfect trolls' picnic area a couple of years ago
>>> didn't hang around much after.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, let's remember the words of the great missionary C.T.
>>> Studd, who ran missions to India, China and Africa spanning the 19th
>>> and 20th centuries. He said:
>>>
>>> "Some want to live within the sound
>>> Of Church or Chapel bell
>>> I'd rather build a rescue shop
>>> Within a yard of hell"
>>>
>>> I know missionaries who went to the Austrian Tyrol, an area whose
>>> lifestyle and GDP certainly outstrips that of the part of the UK
>>> they came from and I know missionaries who went to Nepal where
>>> people can lose their gonads and other jewels amongst the legendary
>>> fierce gurkha tribespeople for getting their back up and where
>>> civil war is raging. I know many others from many other places but
>>> these are if you like the extremes of cushy mission versus
>>> non-cushy mission. I would always prefer to support the folks in
>>> Nepal than these guys in a country where they can be looking down
>>> the barrel of nothing more heatpacking than a freshly baked
>>> apfelstrudel. In the range of missionfields, if kaffee und kuchen
>>> on the pistes by Innsbruck, and some kleine nachtmusik in Salzburg
>>> after that can described as a 1 in severity, and getting ambushed
>>> by bandits in the Himalayas can be put at a 10, I'd give this place
>>> a 2-3 ranking, no higher.
>>>
>>>> Now, this has been your mission field for some time, Davey. How
>>>> has your progress been? If you were to submit your experiences
>>>> and time spent to a Board, would they be pleased?
>>>
>>> I'm not a menpleaser, and no-one finances my efforts but me. I am
>>> really only interested in whether God is pleased, and that is the
>>> question we all need to ask ourselves.
>>>
>>> In the end of the day salvation is about individuals. That means
>>> that the shoal of mackerel on the radar approach is necessary to
>>> get out the Gospel to many people and you correctly, one year ago,
>>> steered me in the direction of setting up a website that could
>>> reach more people with the Gospel than my usenet activities. That
>>> has happened and I have the plan this year to double the content
>>> that I added this year, so that by the end of 2005 I have 3 times
>>> the content that I have now.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, although your fine stats machines show that people
>>> with pretty flags from all over the world have been reading my
>>> articles, I still need to be able to address people on a direct
>>> level as well. That means having a lot more patience. Sure, there
>>> is a chance that some will not have been as effective a use of time
>>> as others, but I am not the one who can measure that, and neither
>>> is any board, unless God have mercy on them and tell them the right
>>> answer.
>>>
>>>> I'm asking these questions because your time is precious. You (and
>>>> I) need to spend our time wisely. If you've spent thousands of
>>>> hours on usenet with no converts, then perhaps you should shake the
>>>> dirt from your shoes . . . or at least give yourself some
>>>> guidelines and parameters regarding posting and reading people's
>>>> messages; as I have done.
>>>>
>>>
>>> My parameters for 2005 are this:
>>>
>>> In 2004 I posted 3506 messages to Usenet. This will be halved in
>>> 2005, at least. That means the most messages I can post in 2005 is
>>> 1753, or 4,79 per day, and this being the 24th so far this year I am
>>> still on par for that.
>>>
>>> My other parameter, to at least double the www. output, I just
>>> mentioned.
>>>
>>>> I'm not encouraging you to give up. I'm just encouraging you to
>>>> use your time wisely. If you could win 10 people to Christ in
>>>> January through posting messages in forums, for instance, would
>>>> you choose that medium over usenet?
>>>
>>> What fora are these, and how do we know that more people will see
>>> them who do not see usenet? Why are they devoid of the kind of
>>> battle we have here? Censored discourse I have to say is of little
>>> interest to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've taken my ministry to forums and to ezboards. I'm going to
>>>> return to them very soon because it will be part of a project I'm
>>>> doing. I'm looking forward to it, too. For some reason, people
>>>> are far more respectable and curious about Christ there. Of
>>>> course, you also run into people that zealously believe odd
>>>> things. It's good to talk to them too, though.
>>>>
>>>> God bless,
>>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>> I wish you well with it, and you too.
>>>
>>> Uncle Davey
>>
>> I know my mission and I'm happily fulfilling it. I pray the same
>> for you, brother.
>>
>> God bless,
>> Jason
>>
>
> Thanks for that.
>
> Nevertheless, I am hoping that even though you won't be speaking to
> DS, that nevertheless you'll also include him in your list of Usenet
> prayers, in due course as it is written that we should bless those
> that curse us and pray from them that despitefully use us. It is also
> written in the Book of James that the effective, fervent prayer of a
> righteous man availeth much.
>
> God bless,
>
> Uncle Davey
Amen, brother Davey. I will - publicly and privately.
Regards,
Jason
--
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