On 16 Aug 2008 01:33:03 -0500, Morpheus <Morpheus@dreamland.com>
wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:32:21 -0700, 4s00th wrote
>(in article <l4fca4hqimgjd7mt9et5lsb5j1u2jvj3pb@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:01:20 -0400, Awake <Awake@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <0001HW.C4CA6CCE01CC350DB01AD9AF@news.newscene.com>,
>>> Morpheus <Morpheus@dreamland.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:31:21 -0700, Grant wrote
>>>> (in article <Grant-me-that-1408082@Grant.Grant>):
>>>>
>>>>> In article <pgh4a4dcuen1u1vn5667cfsedqqqdijndo@4ax.com>, 4s00th
>>>>> <4s00th@hushmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I howl at the moon on a semi-regular basis -- an unfortunate
>>>>>> side-effect of Major Depression, Episodic; Anxiety Disorder with Panic
>>>>>> Attacks & Borderline Personality Disorder. It's nice that some of you
>>>>>> have taken the time to respond. I try so very hard to be together, but
>>>>>> it just doesn't always work. I mean, you take your medicine, and you
>>>>>> takes your chances. Although I have to think that my illness is
>>>>>> probably in remission at present, but it has left its toll on me, and
>>>>>> I wear out far too soon for my own liking -- and I can never forget
>>>>>> that it could turn deadly if it does come out of remission. FTR, it's
>>>>>> not likely to be fatal as long as I take my medicine and seek medical
>>>>>> help when it starts acting up -- but it can be; and it's definitely
>>>>>> fatal if left to its own devices.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like somebody threw the psychological book at you! Should have
>>>>> ducked.
>>>>> Don't get me wrong. Psychological treatment helps most of the time but
>>>>> I wonder how much of it is by accident.
>>>>> I think "borderline" means they don't know but have to make something
>>>>> up to put in your chart.
>>>>> Don't let yourself be branded and limited by fancy labels shrinks use
>>>>> to discuss what they see but don't really understand. Those things are
>>>>> not *you*. Sure we all have some psychological problems. Nobodys
>>>>> perfect. I think you can see some of that here! LOL But those problems
>>>>> are not *all* of who we are. Trying to be good and do good is the best
>>>>> of who we can be and that is what we should remember most about
>>>>> ourselves. You are a good person. That counts for me more than anything
>>>>> else and it should be the same for you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah, well, no one promised it would be easy. Although I have to say
>>>>>> that I have been delighted to see that the Make-A-Wish foundation has
>>>>>> been active with children who have this illness in common with me. And
>>>>>> it's been nice to see more good press come out of it -- the NFL
>>>>>> currently has one of my fellows in remission, probably taking the same
>>>>>> treatments that I have to take!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I just wanted to thank people for responding.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think nobody who did did it for thanks. We humans should stick
>>>>> together!
>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, and I actually had a really nice visit with the friend that I stay
>>>>>> with when I go for my treatments -- it's a bit far for me to drive up
>>>>>> and back on the same day, so that makes things go a little smoother.
>>>>>> She was doing better than she had in years -- a new boyfriend has her
>>>>>> feeling better about herself, and after the harsh treatment from her
>>>>>> brain-damaged husband, she deserves it. Um, he literally is
>>>>>> brain-damaged, and although he can be a nice guy, he turned into the
>>>>>> asshole from hell who blamed everyone else for every problem he ever
>>>>>> had. She stayed with him far longer than she should have, but it was
>>>>>> her decision to make, not mine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I saw some brain damaged people in the hospital I was in. Really sad.
>>>>> Scary too.
>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 4s00th@hushmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you send email, I will reply to it here at asbl
>>>>>> (without showing your email addy)
>>>>>> unless you ask me not to.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sorry I didn't reply to your other posts I meant to. I have time
>>>>> problems with work and family and church. I will try to do better.
>>>>>
>>>>> You asked in a different post why someone who used to post here was
>>>>> attacked and why his name is being used to attack people now. I could
>>>>> tell you in an unbiased way because I didn't know anything about it
>>>>> when I cam back to the fort and asked why he was being attacked with
>>>>> such impossible things and was immediately attacked for being him. Then
>>>>> I went back in time in the groups with a long retention server and
>>>>> studied what had happened. The people who were involved never did that
>>>>> so I have a different and more detached and objective perspective. I
>>>>> could tell you but there are two problems with doing it. In public it
>>>>> might inflame things but it allows for peer review. I could do it in
>>>>> email but private communications can't be part of a larger discussion
>>>>> so you couldn't be sure I was right. Let me know if you want this from
>>>>> me and how.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please remember people here care about you and want you to feel better.
>>>>> Just because people don't post about it all the time doesn't mean you
>>>>> are not in our thoughts and prayers. You are.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poor Grant. "Attacked" by the truth. I'm sure Grant sees the truth as a
>>>> threat.
>>>
>>> Can you communicate something a little less ridiculous? He shows the
>>> opposite. He graciously acknowledged that other, possibly dissenting,
>>> opinions should be heard, while you try to make that into a weakness
>>> because you would never do that. His comments are perfectly reasonable,
>>> while yours are quite the opposite. Why are you trying to promulgate a
>>> lie, and to someone to whom it can't possibly succeed?
>>> Is it because if *you* tried to answer 4s00th's question yourself, he,
>>> having seen some of what happened himself, would know you lied? Coward.
>>>
>>>> Interesting that Grant feels qualified to explain what 'borderline' means.
>>>>
>>>> Had some psychological training, I guess. You don't suppose he's a
>>>> Psychologist!!!!
>>>
>>> Grant never said he was a psychologist, just a grateful beneficiary of
>>> their extensive services. It is a reasonable likelihood that an
>>> intelligent college graduate would acquire a more than significant
>>> amount of information about psychology under those circumstances.
>>> Didn't his mildly cynical viewpoint express just that to you? His
>>> opinions about psychology are common to laymen, such as you yourself
>>> have expressed. They are something Y Not never expressed. Grant has
>>> expressed anger in some of his posts. A psychologist would be unlikely
>>> to do so. Y Not did not. This, for Y Not, does not necessarily a
>>> psychologist make, but unlike what this does for Grant, it does not
>>> rule it out.
>>>
>>>> Another brick in the wall.
>>>
>>> In your mind. Unfortunately, the wall you hide behind also hides your
>>> intelligence, what there may be of it, from us.
>>>
>>>> If I were a person who was feeling shaky, I'd stay as far away from this
>>>> character (Grant aka Y-Not aka Referee aka Tolson aka High aka Gemstone
>>>> aka
>>>> ...the list goes on) as possible. Ask him about a fellow named Mac.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why didn't you continue the list of people you have accused of being Y
>>> Not? Afraid of something? Coward? Liar by omission? You were so
>>> accused, weren't you? Wasn't 4s00th? Wasn't Mac? Wasn't I?
>>>
>>> Don't you see how amusingly ironic it is that *you*, formerly accused
>>> (when you were Duey) of being Y Not, should try to convince someone who
>>> was also accused of being Y Not, and is currently being so accused,
>>> that someone else is Y Not, who just as obviously isn't? And that if it
>>> were true, it would be a bad thing, when just being accused of being
>>> another person is in itself is a very bad attack on a poster's
>>> security? In view of all this, how can a sane person be expected to
>>> believe you? Or are you laboring under the mistaken assumption that
>>> 4s00th isn't sane?
>>>
>>> He may not need to ask him about Mac. Grant wrote about what happened
>>> to Mac in a post to you here in the Fort. It should still be on your
>>> server. Why don't you repost it? More cowardice?
>>>
>>> Why is it you need to try to stop people from being comforted by
>>> others? Why do you need to do this to 4s00th, and in his thread? What
>>> do you have against him? Is it because you still think *he* is Y Not?
>>> When Grant wrote similar thoughts to 4s00th before, you expressed
>>> approval of it, yet here now you do the opposite. Are you trying to
>>> make up for your lapse into humanity that prompted your other post, by
>>> again opposing such things now? Are you so much in need of comforting,
>>> yourself, you have to jealously deny it to others in need?
>>>
>>> Why can you not let others, who are vastly more intelligent than
>>> yourself, read and understand for themselves what other posters write?
>>> Why do you have to try to convince them that what they see and
>>> understand, who can do that much more accurately than you could ever
>>> do, isn't so? Who are you really trying to convince? Yourself. The
>>> mentally disturbed need to do this because at some level of their
>>> awareness, they know they are too far from reality, and need other
>>> people to see things as twisted as they do, so they can feel more sane.
>>> And therefore more secure. This can be most easily seen in cult
>>> leaders, who take this to its ultimate end. The world is fortunate that
>>> you could never rise/sink to that level. It requires consistency and
>>> intelligence, of which you lack both.
>>>
>>> You did not understand Grant's last post to you, which should be no
>>> gigantic surprise to anyone. What he expressed to you was he did not
>>> think you were a moron, but you were just wrong. You could have seen
>>> the complement, if you weren't something of a moron. Does that mean
>>> Grant was wrong?
>>>
>>> Are you now going to be true to your twisted monomaniacal world view,
>>> and accuse me of being Y Not solely because I have criticized you, and
>>> you have nothing with which you can intelligently dispute any of it
>>> because I am correct? Will you further endeavor to convince others of
>>> your insanity?
>>>
>>>
>>> To 4s00th:
>>> Please disregard Morpheus' disruptive intrusion here. I have taken him
>>> to task on your behalf. (Grant doesn't need defending.) And because I
>>> was amused by the irony of his tactics.
>>> Most of us here care about others such that an egocentric disturbed
>>> person, such as Morpheus, can never understand. I care. Very much.
>>> About anyone who is in pain. About you. This is why I am posting. Grant
>>> has expressed some wise thoughts to you. I second them.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm Awake. Morpheus has sung himself to another dream world.
>>
>> And I was so hoping that people weren't going to start this whole
>> flamin' discussion again! Whatever Y-Not did to you guys, I can only
>> say that he was nice to me at a time when I needed someone to be nice
>> to me. As a former mental health Case Worker, I can say that his
>> knowledge of psychology indicated that he was, at the very least, in
>> the field in some capacity. Perhaps, as some have suggested, he was on
>> the other side of the couch -- at any rate, his knowledge was much
>> greater than a layman could reasonably be expected to have. As to many
>> of the things I've heard said about Y-Not, I can only say that I've
>> never been in a position to evaluate the truth of those statements. I
>> have deliberately avoided the in-fighting and whatnot here because,
>> frankly, it made me somewhat ashamed of us. Most of it seemed so
>> superficial and silly. And unfortunately, as some have noted, I tend
>> to take people at face value. I am basically very honest in everything
>> I post -- and I expect the same in others despite the fact that I so
>> often see people who are less than honest.
>>
>> Grant also has been very kind to me when I've needed kindness, and I
>> agree that he tends to be suspicious of psychologists and
>> psychiatrists rather than having the type of knowledge that would
>> indicate his being in the profession. And despite what he has said
>> about Borderline Personality Disorder, I know the diagnostic criteria
>> and the behaviors that make up that criteria quite intimately -- both
>> as a Borderline and as a Case Worker who handled many difficult cases
>> involving people with Borderline Personality Disorder, and handled
>> them quite successfully. In discussing this with my PCP, he asked me
>> if I was suggesting that it takes one to deal with one -- to which I
>> responded that it certainly helped! The disorder is certainly not as
>> nebulous as he describes it. The fact is that I have never been
>> diagnosed as having BPD, but that's just a mistake in diagnosis, a
>> problem all too common in psychology and psychiatry. And the fact is
>> that I hide my symptoms quite well, but my current Psychiatrist
>> actually prefers not to list the diagnosis because of the negative
>> connotation associated with the diagnosis and the possibility of
>> interference from my insurance regarding that diagnosis. In fact, he
>> told me that he was not planning to officially diagnose me with
>> pedophilia for the same reasons. The Major Depression, Episodic and
>> Anxiety Disorder with Panic Attacks are both legitimate diagnoses
>> given the symptoms that I have had over the past 30 years.
>>
>> Let me see if I can explain BPD to you guys. The Borderline
>> Personality is incredibly egocentric (not egotistical, in fact
>> Borderlines tend to have feelings of worthlessness). Borderline
>> Personality Disorder is characterized by extremes -- moods often swing
>> between manic (or extremely happy and euphoric) to extreme depression;
>> the Borderline vacillates from over-valuing people with whom they are
>> in a relationship to under-valuing them -- at first, the person is
>> absolutely perfect, then cannot possibly be more imperfect. A
>> Borderline thrives on chaos. Peace and calm are intolerable, they live
>> from crisis to crisis, even if they have to create the next crisis
>> themselves by over-spending or cutting themselves or other
>> self-destructive behavior. The Borderline has an extreme fear of
>> rejection or abandonment that results in the person either being
>> extremely dependent and needy or avoiding others or intimacy with
>> others. They usually cause the rejection either by being too needy and
>> clingy or by making sure that the relationship is mostly superficial
>> or by setting their expectations so high that no one could possibly
>> meet them. Borderlines can be extremely manipulative -- everything
>> with them is a test of whether you really love them or not. And then,
>> there's the big one -- Chronic feelings of emptiness. Borderlines have
>> the distinct feeling that something is missing in themselves, that
>> they are only playing a role instead of being a real person, that deep
>> down, there's nothing there.
>>
>> If there are any patterns that I've noticed, men with BPD tend to be
>> avoidant and somewhat anti-social, women tend to be more dependent
>> although the higher the intelligence level, the more likely they are
>> to be avoidant and anti-social rather than dependent. BPD tends to be
>> found more frequently in survivors of childhood abuse.
>>
>> It was not my intention to start a flame war over the Y-Not issue. If
>> it cannot be discussed politely and civilly, then I would rather we
>> just let it lie. But, having lived through the whole Dr Denny
>> deception and having tried to negotiate a peace regarding the Defender
>> (who was very helpful to me in asbl even if he got irrational and
>> flamey far too often), I can only hope that those of us who are here
>> for the common goals of celebrating boys and our love of them without
>> harming them can put aside the unimportant disagreements so that we
>> can help each other. And, yes, I wrote that with a straight face! Far
>> too many of the arguments and disagreements and flame-wars that I've
>> seen in here over the years have been about things that really don't
>> matter. I don't mean to say that people hurting each others' feelings
>> are unimportant or don't matter -- I'm just saying that such things
>> could be resolved peacefully and with respect rather than flames.
>>
>> -- 4s00th@hushmail.com
>>
>> If you send email, I will reply to it here at asbl
>> (without showing your email addy)
>> unless you ask me not to.
>
>aka 4s00th.....and there are more; many more.
>
>What is amusing about this is that it is all so obvious. So obvious in fact,
>that it must be deliberate....
>
>Maybe someone can explain that....
Morpheus, I'm not certain why you think I'm Y-Not, or what purpose you
think it would do me to post as 4s00th if I were Y-Not. But, if you
continue to doubt my identity, then I encourage you to contact
Laurence Taylor, a regular on asbl -- and one who remembers my first
posts to that newsgroup way back in 1996 or 1997. He also knows what
other nicks I have used in that group (and rarely in this group) over
the time since then. For that matter, KH and Tommy may well remember
the nick I was using during the time that I attempted to negotiate a
peace between the two groups -- but could not because the Defender
wouldn't keep to the terms I tried to set up. Tommy's very first post
to me was something like "Dear sir, I don't know who you are, but ..."
Sir, indeed, like I was more than 15 years older than him! Well, I
guess when you're that age, 15 years do seem like an awful lot! I
don't know if Doc knows about my extensive history in asbl in years
past, but it was he who invited me to participate in this group
because he thought that the message I was presenting in asbl and the
help I offered to others there might also be needed here. In that
time, I have corresponded with him several times, and he does have one
of my regular email addy's as well as the hushmail account I created
so that other people could contact me anonymously. Now, if all of that
info and all those people cannot convince you, then I guess you'll
have to believe what you want to believe. As to whether anyone else is
really Y-Not, I cannot say because I only had very limited contact
with him, and all of that should be archived in this group. I regret
that I could not help but be a bit put off by all the vitriol and
hatred that I had seen directed at him here over the years -- I found
myself believing that all of you couldn't be wrong. Still, as I say,
he was kind to me -- and that's what really matters to me. But then,
as I also said, the Defender was kind to me and for a long time helped
me try to keep some sense of peace and order in asbl, even if he did
have a tendency to flame trolls and start arguments (and I leave
whatever problems he created with KH & TT between them as it isn't any
of my business, although I tend to believe that they were not making
up any of their complaints against him as he would have had me
think!).
And I swear this to you and everyone -- I am honest in my posts. If I
say I am blue and going out of my head with depression and feeling
suicidal it's only because that's the way I truly feel. If I offer to
help anyone, it's because I truly want to help others. That's why,
after four expensive years of college, I struggled with public service
jobs that paid very little like Social Work and Child Protective
Services. Well, that and the fact that I'm very good at the work! In
fact, part of the reason that I'm having so much trouble right now is
that I feel like I'm not helping anybody right now. When my wayward
one was in constant contact with me and asking all the kinds of
questions that a teenage boy lover asks, I knew I was doing something
worthwhile and I felt very good about myself. At the present, I don't
even know if my messages are getting through to anyone or if I'm just
wasting my time trying to type messages! All I have to lean on is that
I know I'm being true to myself and that I'm trying; unfortunately, my
self-esteem has never been good enough to feel good about doing things
just for myself -- it's always been tied up in doing for others. That
kind of makes it hard when I'm sick and can't do for others!
-- 4s00th@hushmail.com
If you send email, I will reply to it here at asbl
(without showing your email addy)
unless you ask me not to.
|
|