On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:01:20 -0400, Awake <Awake@invalid.com> wrote:
>In article <0001HW.C4CA6CCE01CC350DB01AD9AF@news.newscene.com>,
>Morpheus <Morpheus@dreamland.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:31:21 -0700, Grant wrote
>> (in article <Grant-me-that-1408082@Grant.Grant>):
>>
>> > In article <pgh4a4dcuen1u1vn5667cfsedqqqdijndo@4ax.com>, 4s00th
>> > <4s00th@hushmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I howl at the moon on a semi-regular basis -- an unfortunate
>> >> side-effect of Major Depression, Episodic; Anxiety Disorder with Panic
>> >> Attacks & Borderline Personality Disorder. It's nice that some of you
>> >> have taken the time to respond. I try so very hard to be together, but
>> >> it just doesn't always work. I mean, you take your medicine, and you
>> >> takes your chances. Although I have to think that my illness is
>> >> probably in remission at present, but it has left its toll on me, and
>> >> I wear out far too soon for my own liking -- and I can never forget
>> >> that it could turn deadly if it does come out of remission. FTR, it's
>> >> not likely to be fatal as long as I take my medicine and seek medical
>> >> help when it starts acting up -- but it can be; and it's definitely
>> >> fatal if left to its own devices.
>> >
>> > Looks like somebody threw the psychological book at you! Should have
>> > ducked.
>> > Don't get me wrong. Psychological treatment helps most of the time but
>> > I wonder how much of it is by accident.
>> > I think "borderline" means they don't know but have to make something
>> > up to put in your chart.
>> > Don't let yourself be branded and limited by fancy labels shrinks use
>> > to discuss what they see but don't really understand. Those things are
>> > not *you*. Sure we all have some psychological problems. Nobodys
>> > perfect. I think you can see some of that here! LOL But those problems
>> > are not *all* of who we are. Trying to be good and do good is the best
>> > of who we can be and that is what we should remember most about
>> > ourselves. You are a good person. That counts for me more than anything
>> > else and it should be the same for you.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Ah, well, no one promised it would be easy. Although I have to say
>> >> that I have been delighted to see that the Make-A-Wish foundation has
>> >> been active with children who have this illness in common with me. And
>> >> it's been nice to see more good press come out of it -- the NFL
>> >> currently has one of my fellows in remission, probably taking the same
>> >> treatments that I have to take!
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, I just wanted to thank people for responding.
>> >
>> > I think nobody who did did it for thanks. We humans should stick
>> > together!
>> >
>> >> Oh, and I actually had a really nice visit with the friend that I stay
>> >> with when I go for my treatments -- it's a bit far for me to drive up
>> >> and back on the same day, so that makes things go a little smoother.
>> >> She was doing better than she had in years -- a new boyfriend has her
>> >> feeling better about herself, and after the harsh treatment from her
>> >> brain-damaged husband, she deserves it. Um, he literally is
>> >> brain-damaged, and although he can be a nice guy, he turned into the
>> >> asshole from hell who blamed everyone else for every problem he ever
>> >> had. She stayed with him far longer than she should have, but it was
>> >> her decision to make, not mine.
>> >
>> > I saw some brain damaged people in the hospital I was in. Really sad.
>> > Scary too.
>> >
>> >> -- 4s00th@hushmail.com
>> >>
>> >> If you send email, I will reply to it here at asbl
>> >> (without showing your email addy)
>> >> unless you ask me not to.
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm sorry I didn't reply to your other posts I meant to. I have time
>> > problems with work and family and church. I will try to do better.
>> >
>> > You asked in a different post why someone who used to post here was
>> > attacked and why his name is being used to attack people now. I could
>> > tell you in an unbiased way because I didn't know anything about it
>> > when I cam back to the fort and asked why he was being attacked with
>> > such impossible things and was immediately attacked for being him. Then
>> > I went back in time in the groups with a long retention server and
>> > studied what had happened. The people who were involved never did that
>> > so I have a different and more detached and objective perspective. I
>> > could tell you but there are two problems with doing it. In public it
>> > might inflame things but it allows for peer review. I could do it in
>> > email but private communications can't be part of a larger discussion
>> > so you couldn't be sure I was right. Let me know if you want this from
>> > me and how.
>> >
>> > Please remember people here care about you and want you to feel better.
>> > Just because people don't post about it all the time doesn't mean you
>> > are not in our thoughts and prayers. You are.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Poor Grant. "Attacked" by the truth. I'm sure Grant sees the truth as a
>> threat.
>
>Can you communicate something a little less ridiculous? He shows the
>opposite. He graciously acknowledged that other, possibly dissenting,
>opinions should be heard, while you try to make that into a weakness
>because you would never do that. His comments are perfectly reasonable,
>while yours are quite the opposite. Why are you trying to promulgate a
>lie, and to someone to whom it can't possibly succeed?
>Is it because if *you* tried to answer 4s00th's question yourself, he,
>having seen some of what happened himself, would know you lied? Coward.
>
>> Interesting that Grant feels qualified to explain what 'borderline' means.
>> Had some psychological training, I guess. You don't suppose he's a
>> Psychologist!!!!
>
>Grant never said he was a psychologist, just a grateful beneficiary of
>their extensive services. It is a reasonable likelihood that an
>intelligent college graduate would acquire a more than significant
>amount of information about psychology under those circumstances.
>Didn't his mildly cynical viewpoint express just that to you? His
>opinions about psychology are common to laymen, such as you yourself
>have expressed. They are something Y Not never expressed. Grant has
>expressed anger in some of his posts. A psychologist would be unlikely
>to do so. Y Not did not. This, for Y Not, does not necessarily a
>psychologist make, but unlike what this does for Grant, it does not
>rule it out.
>
>> Another brick in the wall.
>
>In your mind. Unfortunately, the wall you hide behind also hides your
>intelligence, what there may be of it, from us.
>
>> If I were a person who was feeling shaky, I'd stay as far away from this
>> character (Grant aka Y-Not aka Referee aka Tolson aka High aka Gemstone aka
>> ...the list goes on) as possible. Ask him about a fellow named Mac.
>>
>
>Why didn't you continue the list of people you have accused of being Y
>Not? Afraid of something? Coward? Liar by omission? You were so
>accused, weren't you? Wasn't 4s00th? Wasn't Mac? Wasn't I?
>
>Don't you see how amusingly ironic it is that *you*, formerly accused
>(when you were Duey) of being Y Not, should try to convince someone who
>was also accused of being Y Not, and is currently being so accused,
>that someone else is Y Not, who just as obviously isn't? And that if it
>were true, it would be a bad thing, when just being accused of being
>another person is in itself is a very bad attack on a poster's
>security? In view of all this, how can a sane person be expected to
>believe you? Or are you laboring under the mistaken assumption that
>4s00th isn't sane?
>
>He may not need to ask him about Mac. Grant wrote about what happened
>to Mac in a post to you here in the Fort. It should still be on your
>server. Why don't you repost it? More cowardice?
>
>Why is it you need to try to stop people from being comforted by
>others? Why do you need to do this to 4s00th, and in his thread? What
>do you have against him? Is it because you still think *he* is Y Not?
>When Grant wrote similar thoughts to 4s00th before, you expressed
>approval of it, yet here now you do the opposite. Are you trying to
>make up for your lapse into humanity that prompted your other post, by
>again opposing such things now? Are you so much in need of comforting,
>yourself, you have to jealously deny it to others in need?
>
>Why can you not let others, who are vastly more intelligent than
>yourself, read and understand for themselves what other posters write?
>Why do you have to try to convince them that what they see and
>understand, who can do that much more accurately than you could ever
>do, isn't so? Who are you really trying to convince? Yourself. The
>mentally disturbed need to do this because at some level of their
>awareness, they know they are too far from reality, and need other
>people to see things as twisted as they do, so they can feel more sane.
>And therefore more secure. This can be most easily seen in cult
>leaders, who take this to its ultimate end. The world is fortunate that
>you could never rise/sink to that level. It requires consistency and
>intelligence, of which you lack both.
>
>You did not understand Grant's last post to you, which should be no
>gigantic surprise to anyone. What he expressed to you was he did not
>think you were a moron, but you were just wrong. You could have seen
>the complement, if you weren't something of a moron. Does that mean
>Grant was wrong?
>
>Are you now going to be true to your twisted monomaniacal world view,
>and accuse me of being Y Not solely because I have criticized you, and
>you have nothing with which you can intelligently dispute any of it
>because I am correct? Will you further endeavor to convince others of
>your insanity?
>
>
>To 4s00th:
>Please disregard Morpheus' disruptive intrusion here. I have taken him
>to task on your behalf. (Grant doesn't need defending.) And because I
>was amused by the irony of his tactics.
>Most of us here care about others such that an egocentric disturbed
>person, such as Morpheus, can never understand. I care. Very much.
>About anyone who is in pain. About you. This is why I am posting. Grant
>has expressed some wise thoughts to you. I second them.
>
>
>I'm Awake. Morpheus has sung himself to another dream world.
And I was so hoping that people weren't going to start this whole
flamin' discussion again! Whatever Y-Not did to you guys, I can only
say that he was nice to me at a time when I needed someone to be nice
to me. As a former mental health Case Worker, I can say that his
knowledge of psychology indicated that he was, at the very least, in
the field in some capacity. Perhaps, as some have suggested, he was on
the other side of the couch -- at any rate, his knowledge was much
greater than a layman could reasonably be expected to have. As to many
of the things I've heard said about Y-Not, I can only say that I've
never been in a position to evaluate the truth of those statements. I
have deliberately avoided the in-fighting and whatnot here because,
frankly, it made me somewhat ashamed of us. Most of it seemed so
superficial and silly. And unfortunately, as some have noted, I tend
to take people at face value. I am basically very honest in everything
I post -- and I expect the same in others despite the fact that I so
often see people who are less than honest.
Grant also has been very kind to me when I've needed kindness, and I
agree that he tends to be suspicious of psychologists and
psychiatrists rather than having the type of knowledge that would
indicate his being in the profession. And despite what he has said
about Borderline Personality Disorder, I know the diagnostic criteria
and the behaviors that make up that criteria quite intimately -- both
as a Borderline and as a Case Worker who handled many difficult cases
involving people with Borderline Personality Disorder, and handled
them quite successfully. In discussing this with my PCP, he asked me
if I was suggesting that it takes one to deal with one -- to which I
responded that it certainly helped! The disorder is certainly not as
nebulous as he describes it. The fact is that I have never been
diagnosed as having BPD, but that's just a mistake in diagnosis, a
problem all too common in psychology and psychiatry. And the fact is
that I hide my symptoms quite well, but my current Psychiatrist
actually prefers not to list the diagnosis because of the negative
connotation associated with the diagnosis and the possibility of
interference from my insurance regarding that diagnosis. In fact, he
told me that he was not planning to officially diagnose me with
pedophilia for the same reasons. The Major Depression, Episodic and
Anxiety Disorder with Panic Attacks are both legitimate diagnoses
given the symptoms that I have had over the past 30 years.
Let me see if I can explain BPD to you guys. The Borderline
Personality is incredibly egocentric (not egotistical, in fact
Borderlines tend to have feelings of worthlessness). Borderline
Personality Disorder is characterized by extremes -- moods often swing
between manic (or extremely happy and euphoric) to extreme depression;
the Borderline vacillates from over-valuing people with whom they are
in a relationship to under-valuing them -- at first, the person is
absolutely perfect, then cannot possibly be more imperfect. A
Borderline thrives on chaos. Peace and calm are intolerable, they live
from crisis to crisis, even if they have to create the next crisis
themselves by over-spending or cutting themselves or other
self-destructive behavior. The Borderline has an extreme fear of
rejection or abandonment that results in the person either being
extremely dependent and needy or avoiding others or intimacy with
others. They usually cause the rejection either by being too needy and
clingy or by making sure that the relationship is mostly superficial
or by setting their expectations so high that no one could possibly
meet them. Borderlines can be extremely manipulative -- everything
with them is a test of whether you really love them or not. And then,
there's the big one -- Chronic feelings of emptiness. Borderlines have
the distinct feeling that something is missing in themselves, that
they are only playing a role instead of being a real person, that deep
down, there's nothing there.
If there are any patterns that I've noticed, men with BPD tend to be
avoidant and somewhat anti-social, women tend to be more dependent
although the higher the intelligence level, the more likely they are
to be avoidant and anti-social rather than dependent. BPD tends to be
found more frequently in survivors of childhood abuse.
It was not my intention to start a flame war over the Y-Not issue. If
it cannot be discussed politely and civilly, then I would rather we
just let it lie. But, having lived through the whole Dr Denny
deception and having tried to negotiate a peace regarding the Defender
(who was very helpful to me in asbl even if he got irrational and
flamey far too often), I can only hope that those of us who are here
for the common goals of celebrating boys and our love of them without
harming them can put aside the unimportant disagreements so that we
can help each other. And, yes, I wrote that with a straight face! Far
too many of the arguments and disagreements and flame-wars that I've
seen in here over the years have been about things that really don't
matter. I don't mean to say that people hurting each others' feelings
are unimportant or don't matter -- I'm just saying that such things
could be resolved peacefully and with respect rather than flames.
-- 4s00th@hushmail.com
If you send email, I will reply to it here at asbl
(without showing your email addy)
unless you ask me not to.
|
|