On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:20:06 +0000 (UTC),
Jerzy Jakubowski <branchofjesse@hotmail.com> wrote:
> AC <mightymartianca@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:<slrnc2sts1.170.mightymartianca@namibia.tandem>...
>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:54:58 +0000 (UTC),
>> Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com> wrote:
>> > On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 03:19:54 +0000 (UTC), AC
>> ><mightymartianca@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 02:35:33 +0000 (UTC),
>> >>News Subsystem <news@news.astraweb.com> wrote:
>> >>> Uncle Davey <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Salvation by means of sacraments is called sacerdotalism, and is widespread
>> >>>> in both catholicism and false protestantism, but all it is is a
>> >>>> manifestation of works religion, and that is the religion of antichrist,
>> >>>> detracting from the gloy of God and the sufficiency of Christ's atoning
>> >>>> sacrifice.
>> >>>
>> >>> Just out of curiosity, where did you get the idea that Catholics are
>> >>> saved by (as opposed to "through") the sacraments?
>> >>
>> >>This is one of those little distortions that anti-Catholic bigots like to
>> >>spout. I wonder if Davey has asked all his Catholic friends what they
>> >>believe.
>> >>
>> >>Heck, I bet my family is even more bigoted that Davey. They used to tell me
>> >>that Catholics worshipped Mary as a goddess of heaven.
>> >
>> > I don't know about the bigot part. From what I know of Davey, I think
>> > he is speaking of the church leaders and their doctrines, not the
>> > followers of those doctrines that do not know any better.
>>
>> To be a Catholic is to follow the decrees and interpretations of the Church.
>>
>> >
>> > I hold the view that we don't hold against people what they have been
>> > taught by their leaders. There are some Christians that call all
>> > Catholoics or Mormons, for example, unsaved; but that is wrong because
>> > the body of Christ is made up of all children of God from all
>> > Christain denominations.
>> >
>> > Catholics worship and pray to Mary as the mother of God because they
>> > have been taught that she ascended into heaven, but the Bible does not
>> > say that. So if Mary is not in heaven and dead and not able to answer
>> > prayers isn't it cruel to teach people to pray to her?
>>
>> Since I see no reason to accept your interpretation over that of the Roman
>> Church. As an atheist, I see both groups claiming some sort of special
>> knowledge. In neither case do I actually believe it. However, I see
>> nothing wrong in and of itself with the Papacy.
>
>
> If you're an atheist, would could you find wrong with it? It doesn't
> affect you.
Frankly, I do think the oldest churches; the Roman, the Orthodox, the Coptic
and (if there are any left) the Nestorians do have some very real claim to a
special place in Christendom. But what does any of this mean for religious
folk? Nothing, I suppose. If you're a member of one of the historical
churches, you take it as a bonus, and if you're not, you think that sort of
status is irrelevant.
>
> Roman catholic doctrines affect holders of other doctrines because we
> have to continually justify why we don't all join together with them
> in one big happy family. If the doctrinal differences were not
> important, then there's no justification in separation from a single
> church.
>
> Or, Protestants didn't leave the Roman church just so that they can
> sing choruses and not gregorian chants.
I'm well aware of the historical and religious of any unification. Even the
Catholic and the Orthodox churches, despite being fairly close as compared
to some Protestants, still can't get along (witness the latest debacle
between the Orthodox Church and Rome over Eastern Rite churches).
--
Aaron Clausen
tao_of_cow/\alberni.net (replace /\ with @)
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