On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 01:27:00 -0600, Curly Bill
<CurlyBill@Tombstone.town> wrote:
>
>>Usenet history, in the making, or just another dull day?
>>FTR, I am the one doing the 2:1 bit.
>> --=FM=--
>>
>>
>>
>>>Path: newscene.com!newscene!newscene!novia!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail
>>>Newsgroups: alt.fan.aubergine
>>>Subject: Re: Kids at work
>>>Date: 6 Jan 2004 22:55:27 -0600
>>>Organization: Ignorance Unlimited, Ltd.
>>>Lines: 310
>>>Message-ID: <jkvmvvof1s0pdg4piu9k087trno31uar78@4ax.com>
>>>References: <AUB.22302080.22320104@AubsBunker.mn> <8bdmvvcfk11kcinqkr34hlla01i26cmiu5@4ax.com> <AUB.22334984.22335272@AubsBunker.mn> <kgkmvvc5nimvubtce2rvsjo0pk2vba0vk3@4ax.com> <f9smvvgsq6832hihpi00mqeji9363moruj@4ax.com>
>>>Reply-To: Why Bother?
>>>X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572
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>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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>>>Xref: newscene.com alt.fan.aubergine:62355
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You think that is something reserved for places like Cambodia?
>>>>>>>>Official stats state that 320,000 kids between age 6 and 13 work all
>>>>>>>>year in Italy, plus 120,000 more as seasonal help.
>>>>>>>>Greece: 10,000 kids below age 13 work all year in agriculture.
>>>>>>>>Germany: 500, 000 kids between 13 and 15 are into "little jobs"
>>>>>>>>regularily.
>>>>>>>>Tops go to Britain, that super dynamic experimentation playground for
>>>>>>>>neo-cons. 3 million kids work regularily there all year round.
>>>>>>>>Supermarkets, newsstalls, you name it.
>>>>>>>>So we get this straight, we're not talking kids working for a little
>>>>>>>>bit of money for themselves, we're talking kids who have to support
>>>>>>>>their families.
>>>>>>>>As always, long live Capitalism and that joke called democracy, which
>>>>>>>>suits the sharks just as long as it promises profit. Currently,
>>>>>>>>democracy looks like yesteryear's fashion at the sales.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I see. OK, so a bunch of short people have to work to survive, so
>>>>>>>what?
>>>>>>>Would that change any with that stupid "bartering" system you love so
>>>>>>>much?
>>>>>>>No, and why not? Because kids have always worked, no matter what the
>>>>>>>system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What good are they, if not to work?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Maybe, just maybe, we should stop here.
>>>>>>For the following reasons:
>>>>>>1. You never lost a word on why bartering is stupid.
>>>>>>2. I never expressed my love for bartering systems. I just mentioned
>>>>>>them as *interesting*.
>>>>>>3. Your comments about kids working are outright stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You basically got two drive lanes here.
>>>>>>You either shut up because you got nothing you want to contribute.
>>>>>>Or you do take some stuff seriously. I took some time to answer a
>>>>>>previous post from your end. My answer might or might not have been
>>>>>>intelligent and/or comprehensible, but you should note that I took you
>>>>>>question seriously. The way you dealt with my answer indicates any
>>>>>>futire questions from your end should be ignored right from the start.
>>>>>>Labour lost.
>>>>>
>>>>>I see. So I asked you, all nice and polite like, to come up with a
>>>>>pragmatic alternative to capitalism, and you wander off into some crap
>>>>>about how marvy the barter system is, and how you never mentioned soup
>>>>>kitchens, but I am the one that is treading on thin ice?
>>>>>
>>>>>And, to top it off, you call my child working comments "outright
>>>>>stupid", and to add injury to insult, you tell me that I might have to
>>>>>shut up?
>>>>>
>>>>>You been drinking again, I can tell.
>>>>>
>>>>>OK, short and fucking sweet:
>>>>>Despite all the inequities, flaws, and un fairness of the capitalist
>>>>>model, the fucking thing works!
>>>>>
>>>>>It isn't perfect, that's by default, but, until someone comes up with
>>>>>a workable alternative, it's going to be the engine that drives this
>>>>>world.
>>>>>Prove me wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>>And about kids working:
>>>>>Kids have always worked, and, in fact, that's what they were bred for.
>>>>>The farmer needed cheap labour, and by poking his fat ugly sow of a
>>>>>wife, he got the cheap labour, IF they lived.
>>>>>
>>>>>When the industrial revolution started, in the "advanced" countries,
>>>>>the kiddies went to work in the home factories, at first, and later
>>>>>moved into the mechanized, factories.
>>>>>Did they suffer?
>>>>>You bet your ass they did.
>>>>>
>>>>>Was their suffering avoidable?
>>>>>No.
>>>>>Not unless their families starved.
>>>>>
>>>>>Has much changed about child labour?
>>>>>Yes, in the so called civilized societies, it has.
>>>>>However, as about 75% of the world is still in the "dark ages", the
>>>>>laws to protect kids are either non-existent, or not enforced.
>>>>>And, point of fact, w/o the labour of their kids, even today, on
>>>>>01/06/2004, many families would not eat today, w/o their children
>>>>>working.
>>>>>
>>>>>Should these countries/parents/factory owners be held accountable?
>>>>>I dunno.
>>>>>Just how does one explain the difference between the morals,
>>>>>abilities, and attitudes, of the relatively new productive "developed"
>>>>>areas, versus the depressed areas, that have been around for literally
>>>>>thousands of years?
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm not certain, but I suspect that some of this "difference" can be
>>>>>explained by the fact that there are some countries, and specifically,
>>>>>some individuals, THAT REFUSE TO GET THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR BUTTS!!
>>>>>
>>>>>Look, my communist friend, I am just as frustrated as you are, about a
>>>>>lot of things, but dammit, it's time to face facts.
>>>>>
>>>>>Allowing people to own, operate, and reap the rewards, for having
>>>>>their own businesses, as opposed to the State owns everything, is the
>>>>>only salvation for the world.
>>>>>
>>>>>And don't even try that hackneyed crap about, "Well, communism
>>>>>protects it's people by protecting them from the evil capitalists
>>>>>by...."
>>>>>It's all bullshit, and it's over.
>>>>>
>>>>>"I don't own a TV."
>>>>>Fine, just don't shoot the TV station owners that make a bazillion $'s
>>>>>from advertisements.
>>>>>You don't like to watch TV?, great, no skin off of my ass.
>>>>>
>>>>>"I don't own a car."
>>>>>Fine, just don't shoot the auto makers, the road builders, or any of
>>>>>the millions of workers that manufacture automobiles.
>>>>>You don;t want to drive a car?, no skin off my ass.
>>>>>
>>>>>"I don't whatever."
>>>>>Fine, and I mean this from the very bottom of my heart, don't shoot
>>>>>those that do make their daily bread from being involved in inventing,
>>>>>making, shipping, selling, buying, using, this mythical "whatever."
>>>>>You can live w/o "whatever", fine, just live & let die.
>>>>>
>>>>>And finally, a word about your attitude:
>>>>>We have known each other for years, through thick and thin, and yet,
>>>>>you seem to think that I am fodder for your diatribes.
>>>>>FTR, I am not, and never have been.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have never, even though I could, every day of the week, eat a meal
>>>>>costing US$300, and, truth be told, could also toss in a US$300
>>>>>breakfast, and a US$300 lunch, which adds up to US$6300 per week.
>>>>>And, I wouldn't even miss it.
>>>>>
>>>>>But I don't.
>>>>>Why?
>>>>>Because, despite what you might think, I give away literally tens of
>>>>>thousands of US$'s to charities of all sorts.
>>>>>
>>>>>You, on the other hand, only bitch about the big bad mean capitalists,
>>>>>and give not a damned penny to anyone.
>>>>>And yet, that too is OK with me, only please, don't tell me that I am
>>>>>a bad person, or that you might need to ignore my replies, by default.
>>>>>
>>>>>I calls them as I smells them, and veggie, you smell rotten.
>>>>>
>>>>>You want me out of your groups?
>>>>>Fine, just say the word.
>>>>>It;s not the first time you have kicked me out of them, but by all
>>>>>that is holy, it will be the last time.
>>>>>Get it?
>>>>
>>>>Just curious then am I understanding you right or am I misreading. Are you
>>>>saying kids of poor families should work instead of getting and education? IOW
>>>>keep an ignorant "underclass" of uneducated breeding uneductated who never gona
>>>>have the chance to get an education and get anywhere and make a buck for who???
>>>>Nike & Co? So that a couple of fat asses who enhirited a porfolio and never
>>>>moved a finger can get richer and richer?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-------------------------
>>>>Free Spirit
>>>>Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom
>>>>First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom.
>>>
>>>As you didn't SNIP my post in your reply, I will attempt to answer
>>>you.
>>>
>>>Now, let's just stop with the part that precedes your IOW, OK?
>>>The words I used were sufficient, IMO.
>>>
>>>I am not saying that kids from poorer families, or poorer nations,
>>>"should" do a damned thing.
>>>But, I am saying, that that is the way it is, as of today, 2004.
>>>
>>>If their parents, societies, or governments, have to allow them, or
>>>force them, to work in a sweatshop, at age 9 years, just so that the
>>>families of said children can eat, then so be it.
>>>I don't like it, you don't like it, and not many will admit to liking
>>>it; however, that's the way it is.
>>>
>>>*Should* they be allowed to have a decent education?
>>>I dunno, define "be allowed."
>>>
>>>If you are arguing that all children, regardless of race, creed,
>>>religion, or country of birth, have some "god given rights" to be
>>>educated, with said education being paid for by the "richer" nations,
>>>or families, then no, those kids have no such "rights."
>>>
>>>If you are asking me if I would like to see all children, given a
>>>decent education, then sure, why not?
>>>Raising the education of the world, IMO, can only benefit the world.
>>>But, am I going to pay a share of it, beyond that which I already pay
>>>for?
>>>Not if I can avoid it.
>>>
>>>Let me get personal:
>>>I have just finished eating a home cooked meal of shrimp and rice.
>>>I bought, and prepared, 6 large shrimp, at a cost of, including the
>>>cooking oil, etc, US$7.
>>>The rice, an excellent Basmati rice, purchased in10 Kilo quantities,
>>>cost me, perhaps US$0.50, for huge bowl.
>>>The red "shrimp" sauce, US$0.25.
>>>The dried mustard, perhaps US$0.10.
>>>The cooking oil, the heat, and the incidentals, cost me probably
>>>another US$1.00.
>>>
>>>So, for a cost of US$8.85, one single American male, ate a dinner of
>>>shrimp & rice.
>>>
>>>Sound about right?
>>>OK, now my sources in the international food relief programs, tell me
>>>that for US$10, I can help feed a family of 5 people, for an entire
>>>week!
>>>And, for another US$10, I can help supply an entire village with
>>>potable water for a week.
>>>Toss in another US$25 per month, and by golly, I can help supply the
>>>needed medicines, for an entire household, for 3 months!
>>>
>>>Well gee whiz, for about US$100, I can, should I choose to be a stand
>>>up fellow, allow an entire village of people, that live in a country
>>>that has been in existence for thousands of years, long before this
>>>evil capitalistic USA came into being, to continue to exist for
>>>another month.
>>>Well isn't that special?
>>>
>>>For the cost of 11 of my shrimp & rice dinners, I can be a hero.
>>>Fine, I'll do my part.
>>>
>>>But wait, there's even more I can do!
>>>For just a few more dollars, I can help to educate the children, of
>>>the families, that live in the countries, that can't even feed them.
>>>Sweet Jesus, does it get any better than this?
>>>
>>>No matter that the countries where these kids live, and refuse to
>>>change. hate my guts, and no matter that these countries have no
>>>respect for me as a person, as I am an American, and no matter that in
>>>years to come, their children will grow up to bomb & kill my family,
>>>or worse, I get to help educate them!
>>>
>>>Good lord above, where do I send my check?!!!
>>>
>>>No, not on my watch, not hardly.
>>>You, or anyone, that hasn't treated me like I owe you something, has
>>>an emergency, I'll help.
>>>
>>>You have a need for my help, and are not prone to call me names, or
>>>say what a crappy country I was born into, I'll help.
>>>
>>>In fact, I'll go you one better:
>>>I'll match, 2:1, every contribution of US$5,000 each, of every member
>>>of this group, up to US$50,000 on my part, if this groups members come
>>>up with the needed US$25,000, within 30 days from today, 01/06/2004.
>>>
>>>The proceeds from this exercise, will go to a charity, decided upon by
>>>all the contributors, with a majority rules vote being the final say.
>>>
>>>Let's be clear about this, OK?
>>>If 5 members of this group put up US$5,000 each, for a total of
>>>US$25,000, within 30 days form today, 01.06.2004, I will match it,
>>>2:1, for a total of US$50,000. and all that money, will go to a
>>>legitimate, recognized, charity, chosen by the contributors.
>>>
>>>Me, I kind of favor those rench cock suckers, Dr.'s Without Borders,
>>>but hey, that's just one of my favorites.
>>>
>>>dumb shit, and all of that.
>>>Let the big mouths in this group, that have been whimpering for years
>>>about how things should be done, and why me, why me?, and all that
>>>other shit, put up, or shut up, once and for all.
>>>
>>>Just think, Free Spirit, you too can be a part of Usenet history.
>>>Well?
>>>
>I ain't wildman, but I can tell you that I went to work in 1953 at
>the age of 11 washing dishes for $.25 an hour. The next year
>I graduated to carhop at nada per hour, only tips. The next
>year I was promoted to fry cook at $.60 an hour. Kids working
>have been happening forever, everywhere.
Mine is a similar experience, starting when I was 9.
I had a home, food, and all that a hardworking mother and father could
provide, in the late 1950's, and I am OK with it.
My point, was, and is, sincerely, to try and force the bleeding hearts
in that group to do more than just talk.
I have had it with them.
If each one of them will put up US$5,000, I will match it 2:1.
If they do, we will have US$75,000 to give away, to a legitimate
charity.
If they don't, well, it will save me about US$25,000.
One way or the other, I am putting my money where my mouth is.
Time will tell about them.
Remember, you heard it here first!
--
A dunce for all seasons.
Founder & President, *Dunce of the Month Club*
Coordinator, *Yaks for the Yakless, International*
Voted *Usenets Most Trusted Person In History*, 1956 - 2004.
Declared *The Hardest Working Dunce In All Of Usenet*, 1963 - 2004.
Quote: "I have never met a dunce I've liked!"
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