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From: "Bob (not my real pseudonym)" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.aviation
Subject: Re: Seldom-seen WWII pix
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<here@glorious-somerset.uk> wrote:
>On 8/15/2015 10:24 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>> On 2015-08-15 16:53:07 +0000, Ri
ardo <here@glorious-somerset.uk> said:
>>
>>> On 8/15/2015 4:50 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>>> <here@glorious-somerset.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 8/9/2015 2:28 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 22:07:28 -0700, "Bob (not my real pseudonym)"
>>>>>> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 08 Aug 2015 13:04:52 +0000, Charles Lindbergh
>>>>>>> <spirit@stlouis.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> <here@glorious-somerset.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/8/2015 2:35 AM, Byker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Fairey Swordfish - A remarkable aircraft:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Although Swordfish numbered no more than 27 aircraft, they sank an
>>>>>>>>> average 50,000 tons (50,800 MT) of shipping every month. During one
>>>>>>>>> month, they sank a record 98,000 tons (99,572 MT). Swordfish
>>>>>>>>> attacked
>>>>>>>>> enemy convoys at night although they were not equipped with night
>>>>>>>>> instrumentation. The risky night missions were necessary to
>>>>>>>>> avoid German
>>>>>>>>> fighters which encircled the island of Malta by day. On June 30,
>>>>>>>>> 1940,
>>>>>>>>> Swordfish completed a raid attacking oil installations at
>>>>>>>>> Augusta in
>>>>>>>>> Sicily."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.aviation-history.com/fairey/swordfish.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ricardo, I read the article you posted. I was shocked the
>>>>>>>> Swordfish holds the record for sinking more tonnage
>>>>>>>> than any other allied aircraft during WWII.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am guessing this had a lot to do with circumstance as opposed
>>>>>>>> to any remarkable capabilities of the
>>>>>>>> aircraft, what is your perspective on this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would suggest the remarkable capabilities of the crews.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, I'm sure that's it! ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There's interesting comment today by way of a letter to one of our
>>>>> national newspapers where the Swordfish gets a mention, as does the
>>>>> Pacific War of which little is heard about the substantial British
>>>>> contribution:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Sir,
>>>>>
>>>>> The "Forgotten Fleet" and its aircraft will be remembered today when a
>>>>> vintage Royal Navy Swordfish biplane leads the fly-past over Horse
>>>>> Guards Parade in London as part of events to commemorate the 70th
>>>>> anniversary of VJ Day.
>>>>>
>>>>> The British Pacific Fleet was the largest strike force ever
>>>>> assembled by
>>>>> the Royal Navy*** and it fought alongside the US Navy in 1945. Aircraft
>>>>> of the Fleet Air Arm undertook the largest ever raid in aviation naval
>>>>> history on the oil fields at Palembang in Sumatra, and British naval
>>>>> aircraft carried out raids upon Japan itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's most appropriate that a Swordfish, which saw action in every year
>>>>> of the war, will represent not just the forgotten fleet but the
>>>>> oft-forgotten Fleet Air Arm too.
>>>>>
>>>>> We should all take a moment today to remember those who fought the
>>>>> Japanese Empire. Most who survive are nearly 90 years old or more. They
>>>>> deserve our salute.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lt-Cdr Lester May RN (retd)
>>>>>
>>>>> *** To put that into context, Britain provided three-quarters of the
>>>>> warships and landing craft for the D-Day landings in Europe!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Interesting article and comments. Is your point that the Brits
>>>> contributed significantly to the war against Japan? It would be
>>>> logical for them to have done so considering the Japanese, on 8
>>>> December 1941(local time, which was before the Japanese attack on
>>>> Pearl Harbor), attacked the British in Malaya.
>>>>
>>>> Did I miss your point?
>>>>
>>>
>>> In a word, no. But I was also highlighting how large the size of
>>> British Pacific Fleet strike force must have been in 1945 when one
>>> considers the British contribution to the D-Day landings.
>>
>> It seems the Swordfish was not well represented in the Pacific or
>> South-West Pacific, particularly after the 1942 sinking of HMS Hermes in
>> Ceylon.
>>
>> The British Pacific Fleet (BPF) had 6 fleet carriers and 9 escort
>> carriers many of these only moved to the East and Pacific in 1944 and
>> 1945 after Mediterranean and North Atlantic convoy operations had been
>> dialed back.
>>
>> HMS Colossus, Joined the BPF in June 1945, the Swordfish was withdrawn
>> from service in May 1945. She carried 24 Corsairs and 18 Barracudas.
>>
>> HMS Formidable, refitted at Scapa Flow January 1945 with 36 Corsairs and
>> 18 Avengers. Joined BPF April 4, 1945 in the Phillipines. No Swordfish
>> onboard, they were being phased out.
>>
>> HMS Glory, commisioned 2 April 1945, assigned directly to the BPF with
>> Barracudas, and Corsairs onboard. No Swordfish. She took the Japanese
>> surrender at Rabaul.
>>
>> HMS Illustrious, after Taranto and her Indian Ocean cruise, returned to
>> Scapa Flow and refitted. In 1943 her Swordfish were replaced with
>> Barracudas. Two squadrons of Corsairs were added to supplement the
>> Martlets on board. She was assigned to the BPF in November 1944. During
>> the Battle for Okinawa she was so battle damaged she was withdrawn from
>> service and returned to the UK in June 1945.
>>
>> HMS Implacable, was never armed with Swordfish, she was armed with Fairy
>> Fireflies, Barracudas, and Seafires when she was still part of the Home
>> Fleet. In March 1945 she was refitted with 12 Fireflies, 48 Seafires and
>> 21 TBF Avengers and joined the BPF on 8 May 1945 (V-E Day).
>>
>> HMS Indefatigable, joined the BPF in November 1944 with 6 PR Hellcats,
>> 40 Seafires, 12 Fireflies and 21 Avengers onboard. She joined the USN
>> 5th Fleet in March 1945 for the Okinawa invasion. She was the first BPF
>> carrier hit by kamakazis. She lost 25 of her Seafires on that operation.
>>
>> HMS Indominable, she was part of the Eastern Fleet in 1944, and after
>> December 1944 attacks on Sumatra joined the BPF in January 1945. In the
>> East and with the BPF, she flew 39 Hellcats and 21 Avengers.
>>
>> HMS Venerable, commissioned January 1945, and assigned directly to the
>> BPF with 21 Corsairs and 18 Barracudas onboard. She never had Swordfish
>> at anytime.
>>
>> HMS Vengance, commissioned 1945, and joined the BPF in July 1945, but
>> never got out of Sydney before the war ended. Her 24 Corsairs and 18
>> Barracudas did not fly any combat missions. she was too new to have ever
>> flown Swordfish.
>>
>> HMS Victorious. Her Swordfish played an important part in the sinking of
>> the Bismark. In December 1942 she was loaned to the USN and refitted in
>> Norfolk VA. where she was armed with Wildcat (FAA Martlet) and
>> Avengers. In 1944 she returned to the Home Fleet and Barracudas were
>> added. In June 1944 she joined the Eastern Fleet, and joined the BPF in
>> November 1944 with 36 Corsairs, 15 Avengers and 1 Walrus.
>>
>> The 9 BPF Escort carriers were built in Tacoma Washington, and
>> Birmingham, Alabama and carried a mixture of 24 aircraft made up from
>> Martlets, Corsairs, Sea Hurricanes, and a small representation of
>> Avengers. Some of the escort carriers which had been on North Atlantic
>> convoy duty carried Swordfish before transfer to the BPF, but not in the
>> Pacific.
>>
>> The bottom line here is the role the Swordfish played with the BPF was
>> minimal particularly since the last operational Swordfish Squadron was
>> disbanded in May 1945, with the last Swordfish coming off the production
>> line in August 1944. By then most RN carriers were replacing, or had
>> replaced Swordfish with Barrcudas and Avengers.
>>
>>
>
>Thank you for that, although I was not suggesting otherwise. The
>Swordfish was peripheral to later events and, indeed, was obsolescent -
>at best - when it did achieve its major glories!
>
>However, the fact that it still turns out for ceremonial duties
>indicates that there's some life in the old girl yet.
And I am fascinated to learn that BPF escort carriers were built about
100km from my home. Not that I was around at the time...
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