On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:47:21 +0100, Peter Damer
<piotrd@KEINEN_SPAM.plo.lublin.pl> wrote:
>> As I see it, 'in' referring to the birds means "inside the canopy" (and
>> frequently hidden). The ornaments are designed to be seen from the
>> outside, and are hung onto the (branches of the) tree.
>
> Which is actually quite logical - contrary to what we usually say in Polish
> - birds sit always ON the tree regardless of their actual position. And I
> assure you there are leaves on those trees most of the year :)
Poland is further south than I always think of it <g>.
> I wouldn't say 'in the tree [PL]' unless in a hollow trunk of a dead tree -
> not even in the hollow in a living one.
> A seat is even a better example - we always 'sit ON a seat [PL]', 'ON an
> armchair [PL]' and 'ON a chair [PL]' obviously.
> And what about English in this case? I always say 'IN the seat' but
> according to dictionary.com ON too is possible. Any difference? And what
> about a chair - I usually say ON. Correct?
I would sit in an armchair, on a dining chair (without arms). Again,
it's the enclosing nature of the space which makes the difference, we
tend to go for the logical rather than a grammatical rule (my German
teacher in Germany kept saying "Es is nicht logisch!" when we askeed why
something is a particular gender or whatever).
>>> No wonder English is such a difficult language! :)
>>
>> At least the syntax is simpler than German (or Russian -- do you really
>> want six inflected cases?)...
>
> All the less - I think - you'd like to have seven of them as in Polish :)
Glunk. What are the others? I have enough trouble with the four in
German.
> But e.g. the idiomatical stratum and the (UN)COUNATBILITY of nouns in
> English are definitely more complicated than here. And it's not just these
> two fields I find more complex in English - however amorphical it is :)
Hmm, in what way are nouns uncountable? Or rather, how would you expect
them to be more countable?
English has the problem (which is also one of its assets) that it has
absorbed words from many other languages, and so has some which are
still formed in a Latin way, some in a Germanic way, etc. It also has a
very flexible structure (I'm told that some places teach it as
exceptions, you can say things any way except certain ones which change
the meaning). When I've been talking to German friends, my sentences in
German wordorder are formed, but understandable they are <g>...
Idiom is a barrier in almost every language, of course, it is very much
based on the culture and shared experiences.
Chris C
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