Subject: Re: re. Do boylovers hurt boys?
From: "::alias::" <::alias::@yourplace.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 19:15:13 -0500
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unkn <76636@lol.com>let his fingers dance across the keyboard and
saidnews:Xns997521E35C00676636lolcom@216.40.28.70:
> hello Lipschitz and excuse my former insolence. I can't prevent it and
> I'm sorry.
>
> Like we all agree about who is the guilty and therefore, causes the
> harm, this discussion is at risk of becoming superfluous. Anyway I'll
> try to insist on something. I told before that taking risks, transgress
> the law I mean, is a personal decision and perhaps more than that, a
> personal life style. If you are happy the way you live, fantasizing,
> then I can't do more than encourage you to continue this way. I know
> that there are a lot of people who is happy enjoying what God gave them
> and not lamenting about what God deprived of (like Robinson Crusoe used
> to say). For your concern, I'll tell you that I don't believe in God,
> and if I did, I'd have to think that he's a cynic bastard.
>
> Well, returning to the point, if you're happy this way then it's ok
> with me. But, if I suffer, is this ok with you? And, do you think that
> I'm the only one? Did you ever depress before? Heavily depressed I mean.
> You obviously have the right to don't give a shit about how I (or we)
> can feel, but well, i'm just curious about what you have to say to the
> people like me and the future people like me. What do you have to say to
> all those boys who grow up in pure bitterness? That this world have his
> rules and they cannot break them? That they have to learn to live
> humiliated and isolated? That they won't be able to rest in the arms of
> their beloved ones because others decided that this was filthy and
> depraved? That they'll feel somedays like blowing up their brains but
> with time they'll control this? Is this surviving for you? For me it's
> dying. So then, I'm afraid to say that I don't share your suggestions.
> You wish me luck, maybe sarcastically, changing the world. Thank you. I
> realise that I'm not more than a bunch of empty ideals. But it's not in
> my plans to renounce to them. I'm more than willing to fill my ideals.
> You bet.
> I'm not surprised about those stories you and Ted related and that
> ended nicely. I know, cause I know myself, that there're very few people
> more concerned about the boys' welfare than the bls. I'm not surprised
> of the sad stories neither. As long as the world exist, injustices and
> abuses will exist too. But this is not a reason to give up. We are much
> more conscious of reality than they are, though this is something they
> will never recognise.
>
> To conclude I want to thank HMSVictor and... I hope he read this, btw.
> I enjoyed very much, as allways, your little piece of biography. You
> know, I also had a young friend when I was a teen. I was brutally in
> love with him, I can say, and I'd have loved to...well, to 'eat' him,
> but not in the Yanonami way. He liked me too, but not as much :P. You
> know, we were too brave to care about the sin, but in that social storm
> that is the adolescence, we never were able to get rid of the shame. Who
> wants to be a little fag when you're just 14yo? Who wants to face that
> disgrace?. Now I have to blame me and remember with sadness every moment
> gone in the wind, and ask myself how it could have been if the world had
> been a little better, if I had been a little better. I don't want more
> boys passing through this. Wouldn't you wish that young Victor could
> have tried (just tried) to search the affection of any of his friends,
> without the omnipresent fear to be publicly pointed and vexed? It's
> noble to fight for these boys, and it's noble to fight for us, you can
> be sure of it.
>
> just that, regards.
>
Hello once again, unkn,
I didn't mean to sound sarcastic when I told you 'Good luck changing the
world'. I meant that quite seriously, although I believe you're charging
windmills on this particular issue. I believe the odds are simply too great
to make any change in the way people, even gay people, look at us as a
group. I'm sure you're aware of the stereotypes: we only care about getting
off, we ruin lives, yada, yada, yada, ad nauseum.
Speaking of gay people, since it is somewhat unlikey that we will reproduce
biologically, just where does the next generation of gays come from?
Surely, not every gay boy or man has had a "pervert" corrupt him. (BTW, in
my experience, gay boys tend to be attracted to other boys near their own
age. Sorry about that...) But, as Victor says, I digress.
There are many, if not a majority, of BL's that are truly interested in
being a real friend to the boys, to be there for them, and to be an older,
more experienced advisor. That was my whole point when I responded to your
last post. I feel that the relationship can, and with care, be a positive
experience. There are just too many risks involved for me, personally, to
go looking for underage sex. I didn't say I didn't talk to boys at all,
just that I don't plan on getting sexually involved with one.
I wonder if it is not better to promote acceptance and change in steps. The
general public (at least in this part of the US) is not yet completely
comfortable with two men or two women loving each other, let alone
intergenerational sex. My humble opinion would be to promote something more
likely to be accepted before promoting the less likely to be accepted. As I
stated in my previous post, I have no attraction to adults. However, if
gaining acceptance for alternative lifestyles for adults will eventually
open the door for acceptance of the intergenerational lifestyle, I support
it wholly. Am I willing, today, to carry a sign proclaiming my attraction
to boys in a parade down Broadway ? No. Would I carry that sign if the
public would even discuss the issue without demanding my head on a platter?
Maybe.
So, I think it's important to choose the battle. Maybe it is cowardace, as
you said in an earlier post, but I think it is important to end the knee-
jerk reactions of the general public and consider the possibility that the
boy involved wanted and initiated the encounter. For that to happen,
parents and society must recognize that children have feelings and desires.
Then we open another door. When does the child have the capacity to make
decisions like that? (My personal opinion: as with maturity,it varies from
boy to boy, no set age).
Some parents have a tendency to view their offspring as perpetual children.
Grown offspring can attest that at 40 and even older, they are still
"Mama's baby". This is not a bad thing, quite the opposite. It's great,
except for one thing: recognition of the ability of the child (offspring)
to make decisions, and at what age. Therein lies the danger...For
example,little Johnny has known for three years he's gay and wants to be
loved by a grown man, but because Johnny is thirteen, "he's too young to
make that decision, hence YOU'RE a PERVERT and ruined his life". That is an
example of what we're all trying to change, just in different ways.
Even if little Johnny is over the legal age of consent, well there's
another little detail. He's still under the age of majority. Now, the state
has said that Johnny can..well sort of...decide...or not...for himself.
Makes bushels of sense, huh? So, little Johnnie decides to go down to the
park or wherever it is, and runs into an older guy that is just the one
that Johnnie has been looking for. Things go swimmingly until there is a
knock at the door, and you know how it goes from there. Johnnie is the
'victim' and older guy is the perpetrator..ruined his life, yada yada etc.
In other words, it is almost an insult to the parent to discover that
little Johnny has been consensually seeing a man. Johnny couldn't do that!
It must be somebody's fault, and that leaves only one to blame...
There is also an aside to this...most states in the U.S. have sex offender
registries, where once one is convicted, that person's name in on the
publicly-accessible record forever. If someone happens to be looking at his
or her state registry and discovers your name, well then. It is illegal to
use that information to harass anyone, but it still happens. So the
conviction lasts a lifetime. Even if someone murdered somebody, that
information is not available without some trouble.(Try to gather that
information on someone you know, then check them against the sex offender
listing...the latter is much easier...)
Sorry, I digress again. It is just a sore point with me that a person never
repays his "debt to society' <insert sarcasm> when convicted of loving
someone. Especially when that someone doesn't even know that the feelings
he has are so terrible as to ruin his life... unless someone tells him.
Sorry, like I said, sore point.
I feel your pain and frustration. I truly do. I think we (bl's) all feel
it. Although you may not recognize it, I am just like you. I have the same
dark days of depression, and understand how hard it is to deal with. And, I
understand how hard it is to deal with the bitterness of not being able to
love the one you want to love, whether you are fourteen or forty. It's like
looking into a restaraunt when you have no money and haven't eaten for
three days. The hunger can consume you.
Believe me , I understand. The worst part is there is nobody, not even
professionals, I feel I can trust talking to about the hunger.(Some, if not
all, are required by law to report to the lea anything that includes a
felony) So, I just try to not to do anything about the hunger today. Just
for today. It still burns, and haunts me as surely as it does you, but at
least I can stand at the door and inhale deeply.Maybe that just makes it
worse. Either way, that is something that is lost if I'm sent away for
twenty or more years, then get out and have my name placed on a list of
people that can't be near children for the rest of my life. Bummer...
So, we all have our threshold of pain. My threshold has risen over the
years, and I seldom get the desire to inflect harm upon myself. I've sought
solice in alcohol and in drugs, but have not tried religion. That's another
story entirely.
You don't mention your age, and I don't think is is wise to do so, but I
would guess you are younger than I. Incidentally, you remind me of myself
before the resignation and acceptance set in. Maybe one can tolerate only
so much flaming and degradation before one just gives up. Maybe that won't
happen to you. I hope not, anyway.
I re-read this just a moment ago, and I sound like a bitter old man.
Honestly, I am neither bitter nor old. I think 'realistic' comes closer to
the accurate description.
I'm not a rich man; I couldn't afford the occasional rent-boy, even if I
could locate one. I can't relocate to another country like Brazil where the
street boys are routinely shot as they sleep, and try to do something,
anything about that. My heart breaks the more because I cannot save just
the one boy, than it does that I cannot love ten.
Some advice from a not-so-old and a not-very-wise man:
1 Change what you can change, but recognize what is changeable.
2 Find ways to involve yourself in a boy's life, and let things run.
3 Don't spend too much time thinking about loving a boy; you already are
loving a boy. If he wants to go further, then he will take the lead.
4 If you make the decision to follow, be aware of the lessons learned from
the mistakes of others, that's all.
5 And, if you want to increase your chances, get involved in several boys
lives. Even if you never get anything more, you'll have had made a
difference and will have been immortalized in their eyes.
Oh yeah, also masturbate frequently, fervently, and furiously! :-P
Thanks for letting me vent. I apologize for the length. I hope I have not
offended.
Take care.
Lips
--
"You beat your children for childish mistakes, yet you call us savage"
--Chief Old Tassle, Cherokee
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