In article <468ef193$0$286$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com>,
"::F. Lipschitz::" <Lips@schitz.org> wrote:
> HMS Victor Victorian <VV@19thCent.net>let his fingers dance across the
> keyboard and saidnews:rsel83hkdt6r43km2nkq465ka9l33mjbjt@4ax.com:
>
> > I've taken the liberty, as an aside, to insert a song that became,
> > quite by accident, very important in my life.
> >
> > With so much talk as to whether people, particularly men, who display
> > pronounced sexual preferences outside of the mainstream expectations,
> > are "born that way" or "learn to become that way" or, to strike a more
> > fundamental note, "succumb to the tempations of Satan." Certainly the
> > nature vs. nurture arguments have been batted about regarding
> > homosexuality in the classic sense, but if one is a child lover, one
> > cannot help but wonder--particularly since being such is so reviled
> > and stigmatized in Western society--so much so that enlightened legal
> > systems haven't a problem tearing away from them the basic legal and
> > human rights that are yet held sacred for murderers and serial
> > rapists.
> >
> > Although I am not absolutely convinced, I think the argument that it
> > is a born tendency is the only one that holds. There is no convincing
> > evidence that a boy [and I shall speak of boys only] who, having been
> > "molested" by an adult, will himself develop a sexual preference for
> > young boys--unless, of course, he already had that propensity as a
> > child and, yes, perhaps even at birth. Although a boy may indeed
> > enjoy a sexual experience with another boy or man, that enjoyment is
> > no indication if he'll lead a straight or gay or child-loving life. I
> > find it dispicable that Western Society insists to the child that this
> > IS the case ... as with the boy who told his father he was "afraid
> > he'd become a fag." It is just another way society keeps people in
> > line, I suppose, whatever the cost.
> >
> > But, I digress [as usual]. I'll let the brilliant geneticists tinker
> > with that one. No doubt they'll identify a gene marker, prescribe
> > some advanced and technologically savvy treatment, do a longitudinal
> > study of one or two decades, then decide that there was no significant
> > statistical evidence for their discovery. A bit like cold fusion.
> >
> > But, I digress [as usual][again].
> >
> > Does a boy, then, really know if he will grow up to love boys? And if
> > so, how and when might it be revealed and, if it is, would he know
> > what it meant?
> >
> > I was a very shy boy and hesitant ... easily embarrassed and
> > intimidated. I had a few friends as a child and we played together.
> > We loved all the American things ... and played Army and Cowboys and
> > Naked Indians [in swimming attire, I assure you] and, like most boys,
> > did some sneaking and peeking at one another's privates and hootchicoo
> > dancing. That was all good and fine ... none of it seemed sexual in
> > the least. I do recall alot of giggling and the accidental spurting
> > of soda pop out of the nose.
> >
> > But I think the moment that the revelation hit me, was during a
> > vacation with the folks in the States. We'd gone off to Disneyland,
> > in the state of California ... Anaheim. It must have been '64 or '65
> > of the last century [ouch]. I was probably thirteen years old ...
> > right at puberty [though I had no inkling what all that was really
> > about--just pretended I did, like so many other lads]. Mum and Dad
> > had gone off for refreshments ... I remember it was summertime and I
> > was left standing in line for one of the rides. They used tickets in
> > those days--I understand it's changed, tho' haven't been back in
> > decades. It was quite hot and muggy, and I was in a tight line
> > waiting to get into the "C" ticket ride called [I believe] The Peter
> > Pan Ride.
> >
> > Heavens! Barrie! Peter Pan! My God, could it have been so
> > obvious??? What an amusing coincidence! Or was it a coincidence?
> >
> > But I digress [as usual][again][repeatedly]. I vividly recall
> > turning around to look to see if Mummy and Daddy had returned. There
> > was a song playing out on a tinny transistor radio--an instrumental by
> > Vince Guaraldi. As I turned, I looked into the face of a boy standing
> > directly behind me, a sandy-haired American boy, probably eleven or
> > twelve years old. He had one of those American style white sailor
> > caps, the kind you can snap the brim down all around--and he had the
> > brim down, shading his eyes ... I recall they were deep blue. His
> > features were strong, but not overly masculine or feminine--a delicate
> > mouth with a ready smile ... a glimmer of excitement in his eyes as he
> > looked ahead. Well, something hit me emotionally. I didn't know what
> > it was, really ... I didn't have an erection, or any such thing that I
> > could have even thought might be sexual [it was then all a mystery to
> > me anyway]. I just felt my heart jump and suddenly weak. To tell you
> > the truth, it scared me terribly. I looked away quickly, but glanced
> > back again. The lad saw me look and asked, "Are you okay?" in a most
> > sincere tone, rather than the sarcastic sneer one might expect from
> > someone teetering on the brink of teen hood. I stuttered out
> > something ... I don't remember what, perhaps, "Uh, yeah. Okay," then
> > looked away again, feeling anxious and frightened. Thankfully, at
> > last the line began to move and I clamoured into the cart waiting to
> > whisk me up and away over London and to Neverland ... alone.
> >
> > Anyone with some simple arithmetic skills can deduce that I am now
> > somewhat sadly over middle age, yet I have never forgotten that ride.
> > I have never forgotten that boy. At times I wonder if he'd been
> > killed in Vietnam and pray not. And I shall always cherish that piece
> > I heard that day by Vince Guaraldi, which when played today yet
> > brings tears to my eyes.
> >
> > Was that the revelation, then? What was a boy to make of such a
> > thing?
> >
> > Well ... silly me. Here's the piece, not that any would be
> > particularly interested, rendered by Sounds Symphonic ...
> > God Save Her Majesty the Queen.
> > God Preserve the Prince of Wales.
> > Rule Britannia!
>
> As a newcomer to the group, I almost decided not to post my thoughts on
> this. However, I have spent considerable time pondering the same
> question.
>
> I believe our attraction is born into us. I don't recall being diddled
> by an adult as a child, there was simply not much chance that this
> occurred.
> I remember normal interaction (playing Doctor) with my young same-age
> peers. Lots of same and opposite sex experimentation, beginning before I
> started school. I remember I found boys to be more interesting, but
> then, I was mostly around little girls as a child.
> Around the age of fourteen or so, I found that my age of attraction was
> staying a bit younger. I would tend to find thirteen year old boys more
> attractive that fifteen year old boys or girls, for example.
>
> This is where the question comes. Am I 'gay'? No there is
> absolutely no attraction to adult men. I see men I think are handsome,
> sure, but do I want to have their babies? Not a chance. Do I want them
> to have mine? Same answer. So, as I got older, the age of attraction
> stayed the same.
> I wonder sometimes that if this is not a deep desire to recapture
> our own boyhood.
> Did I know I would be this way (BoyLover)? No, I thought I would
> probably just be gay, and that would be that. Things would be much
> simpler if it had turned out that way.
>
> Attraction does not mean action. I don't cultivate friendships
> with boys, and would not have a sexual relationship with a minor. Things
> can get ugly in prison.
>
> So, there it is. No attraction to adult (or otherwise) women, no
> attraction to adult men. Not about to try anything with an underage boy.
> Doesn't leave many choices, does it? Hell, I even have to pour beer on
> my hand to get it drunk, and then half the time it goes to sleep!
>
> I think my personal answer is I knew I liked other boys at an
> early age, and the profound discovery I liked younger boys came at about
> fifteen or so. I have never been interested sexually in those boys
> younger than, say, ten. I see plenty of boys I would describe as cute
> (Most of them!), but there's no attraction until about ten through
> puberty. After that, once again, no attraction. Pretty narrow range, eh?
> So, these are my thoughts and feelings on the question. I think
> it's born into us, and boylove may start as peer experimentation, as in
> my case. Personally I would love to return to those days, but alas, that
> is impossible.
>
> An aside: Some of the most homophobic boys and men I have known
> would be the first to fool around, given the excuse of being drunk or
> stoned. I think their homophobic actions are simply a denial of their
> desires. When I was a boy, I had an acquantience (twelve or so at the
> time) that terrorized boys he thought were gay, then came over to spend
> the weekend at my house and ...well.let's just say he wasn't a stranger
> to certain learned arts...I feel this is still the case today. Men (and
> boys) have trouble dealing with their own desires, and forbid others to
> have the same desires.
>
> Thank you for bringing this up, Victor. By the way, I enjoyed your
> musical interlude, Your story about Disneyland was especially touching.
> Thank you for sharing.
my hand drunk!
|
|