On 6 Jul 2007 20:53:04 -0500, "::F. Lipschitz::" <Lips@schitz.org>
wrote:
>HMS Victor Victorian <VV@19thCent.net>let his fingers dance across the
>keyboard and saidnews:rsel83hkdt6r43km2nkq465ka9l33mjbjt@4ax.com:
>
>> I've taken the liberty, as an aside, to insert a song that became,
>> quite by accident, very important in my life.
>>
>> With so much talk as to whether people, particularly men, who display
>> pronounced sexual preferences outside of the mainstream expectations,
>> are "born that way" or "learn to become that way" or, to strike a more
>> fundamental note, "succumb to the tempations of Satan." Certainly the
>> nature vs. nurture arguments have been batted about regarding
>> homosexuality in the classic sense, but if one is a child lover, one
>> cannot help but wonder--particularly since being such is so reviled
>> and stigmatized in Western society--so much so that enlightened legal
>> systems haven't a problem tearing away from them the basic legal and
>> human rights that are yet held sacred for murderers and serial
>> rapists.
>>
>> Although I am not absolutely convinced, I think the argument that it
>> is a born tendency is the only one that holds. There is no convincing
>> evidence that a boy [and I shall speak of boys only] who, having been
>> "molested" by an adult, will himself develop a sexual preference for
>> young boys--unless, of course, he already had that propensity as a
>> child and, yes, perhaps even at birth. Although a boy may indeed
>> enjoy a sexual experience with another boy or man, that enjoyment is
>> no indication if he'll lead a straight or gay or child-loving life. I
>> find it dispicable that Western Society insists to the child that this
>> IS the case ... as with the boy who told his father he was "afraid
>> he'd become a fag." It is just another way society keeps people in
>> line, I suppose, whatever the cost.
>>
>> But, I digress [as usual]. I'll let the brilliant geneticists tinker
>> with that one. No doubt they'll identify a gene marker, prescribe
>> some advanced and technologically savvy treatment, do a longitudinal
>> study of one or two decades, then decide that there was no significant
>> statistical evidence for their discovery. A bit like cold fusion.
>>
>> But, I digress [as usual][again].
>>
>> Does a boy, then, really know if he will grow up to love boys? And if
>> so, how and when might it be revealed and, if it is, would he know
>> what it meant?
>>
>> I was a very shy boy and hesitant ... easily embarrassed and
>> intimidated. I had a few friends as a child and we played together.
>> We loved all the American things ... and played Army and Cowboys and
>> Naked Indians [in swimming attire, I assure you] and, like most boys,
>> did some sneaking and peeking at one another's privates and hootchicoo
>> dancing. That was all good and fine ... none of it seemed sexual in
>> the least. I do recall alot of giggling and the accidental spurting
>> of soda pop out of the nose.
>>
>> But I think the moment that the revelation hit me, was during a
>> vacation with the folks in the States. We'd gone off to Disneyland,
>> in the state of California ... Anaheim. It must have been '64 or '65
>> of the last century [ouch]. I was probably thirteen years old ...
>> right at puberty [though I had no inkling what all that was really
>> about--just pretended I did, like so many other lads]. Mum and Dad
>> had gone off for refreshments ... I remember it was summertime and I
>> was left standing in line for one of the rides. They used tickets in
>> those days--I understand it's changed, tho' haven't been back in
>> decades. It was quite hot and muggy, and I was in a tight line
>> waiting to get into the "C" ticket ride called [I believe] The Peter
>> Pan Ride.
>>
>> Heavens! Barrie! Peter Pan! My God, could it have been so
>> obvious??? What an amusing coincidence! Or was it a coincidence?
>>
>> But I digress [as usual][again][repeatedly]. I vividly recall
>> turning around to look to see if Mummy and Daddy had returned. There
>> was a song playing out on a tinny transistor radio--an instrumental by
>> Vince Guaraldi. As I turned, I looked into the face of a boy standing
>> directly behind me, a sandy-haired American boy, probably eleven or
>> twelve years old. He had one of those American style white sailor
>> caps, the kind you can snap the brim down all around--and he had the
>> brim down, shading his eyes ... I recall they were deep blue. His
>> features were strong, but not overly masculine or feminine--a delicate
>> mouth with a ready smile ... a glimmer of excitement in his eyes as he
>> looked ahead. Well, something hit me emotionally. I didn't know what
>> it was, really ... I didn't have an erection, or any such thing that I
>> could have even thought might be sexual [it was then all a mystery to
>> me anyway]. I just felt my heart jump and suddenly weak. To tell you
>> the truth, it scared me terribly. I looked away quickly, but glanced
>> back again. The lad saw me look and asked, "Are you okay?" in a most
>> sincere tone, rather than the sarcastic sneer one might expect from
>> someone teetering on the brink of teen hood. I stuttered out
>> something ... I don't remember what, perhaps, "Uh, yeah. Okay," then
>> looked away again, feeling anxious and frightened. Thankfully, at
>> last the line began to move and I clamoured into the cart waiting to
>> whisk me up and away over London and to Neverland ... alone.
>>
>> Anyone with some simple arithmetic skills can deduce that I am now
>> somewhat sadly over middle age, yet I have never forgotten that ride.
>> I have never forgotten that boy. At times I wonder if he'd been
>> killed in Vietnam and pray not. And I shall always cherish that piece
>> I heard that day by Vince Guaraldi, which when played today yet
>> brings tears to my eyes.
>>
>> Was that the revelation, then? What was a boy to make of such a
>> thing?
>>
>> Well ... silly me. Here's the piece, not that any would be
>> particularly interested, rendered by Sounds Symphonic ...
>> God Save Her Majesty the Queen.
>> God Preserve the Prince of Wales.
>> Rule Britannia!
>
>As a newcomer to the group, I almost decided not to post my thoughts on
>this. However, I have spent considerable time pondering the same
>question.
>
>I believe our attraction is born into us. I don't recall being diddled
>by an adult as a child, there was simply not much chance that this
>occurred.
> I remember normal interaction (playing Doctor) with my young same-age
>peers. Lots of same and opposite sex experimentation, beginning before I
>started school. I remember I found boys to be more interesting, but
>then, I was mostly around little girls as a child.
>Around the age of fourteen or so, I found that my age of attraction was
>staying a bit younger. I would tend to find thirteen year old boys more
>attractive that fifteen year old boys or girls, for example.
>
> This is where the question comes. Am I 'gay'? No there is
>absolutely no attraction to adult men. I see men I think are handsome,
>sure, but do I want to have their babies? Not a chance. Do I want them
>to have mine? Same answer. So, as I got older, the age of attraction
>stayed the same.
> I wonder sometimes that if this is not a deep desire to recapture
>our own boyhood.
> Did I know I would be this way (BoyLover)? No, I thought I would
>probably just be gay, and that would be that. Things would be much
>simpler if it had turned out that way.
>
> Attraction does not mean action. I don't cultivate friendships
>with boys, and would not have a sexual relationship with a minor. Things
>can get ugly in prison.
>
> So, there it is. No attraction to adult (or otherwise) women, no
>attraction to adult men. Not about to try anything with an underage boy.
>Doesn't leave many choices, does it? Hell, I even have to pour beer on
>my hand to get it drunk, and then half the time it goes to sleep!
>
> I think my personal answer is I knew I liked other boys at an
>early age, and the profound discovery I liked younger boys came at about
>fifteen or so. I have never been interested sexually in those boys
>younger than, say, ten. I see plenty of boys I would describe as cute
>(Most of them!), but there's no attraction until about ten through
>puberty. After that, once again, no attraction. Pretty narrow range, eh?
> So, these are my thoughts and feelings on the question. I think
>it's born into us, and boylove may start as peer experimentation, as in
>my case. Personally I would love to return to those days, but alas, that
>is impossible.
>
> An aside: Some of the most homophobic boys and men I have known
>would be the first to fool around, given the excuse of being drunk or
>stoned. I think their homophobic actions are simply a denial of their
>desires. When I was a boy, I had an acquantience (twelve or so at the
>time) that terrorized boys he thought were gay, then came over to spend
>the weekend at my house and ...well.let's just say he wasn't a stranger
>to certain learned arts...I feel this is still the case today. Men (and
>boys) have trouble dealing with their own desires, and forbid others to
>have the same desires.
>
> Thank you for bringing this up, Victor. By the way, I enjoyed your
>musical interlude, Your story about Disneyland was especially touching.
>Thank you for sharing.
You are most welcome.
I appreciate your thoughtful comments regarding an issue that strikes
hard and deep into the psyche of, I believe, most sincere boylovers.
university ... and I can assure you we were more than platonic. She
was a lovely and petite West Indian, but given that, I found that I
was particularly "fond" of a childhood school picture of her she once
showed me, in which she looked exactly like ... well, a young boy.
I was quite infatuated with her, but upon bicycling home late in the
evenings and stretching out on my back in bed, my thoughts [and my
thoughts alone] invariably turned to boys ... beaming, boistrous,
beautiful brown boys..
Well! There it is.
I therefore agree with you regarding the fundamental difference
between boylovers and classic male homosexuals [who by the by claim to
despise boylovers ... to a great extent that being a defensive
reaction due to constant accusations by homophobes that men attracted
to other men are actually paedophiles ... protesting all along, as
with Monty Python, "What! I am no bugger, sir!" LOL]
There is a line from the movie The Wild Bunch, in which an older
Mexican man states to William Holden, "I think most men fondly wish to
become boys again ... and the worst men most of all."
I'm glad you responded. It isn't an easy thing to do, particularly in
a public forum ... a fairly anonymous, true, but very public forum.
Ted didn't like my selection of music, though!
God Save Her Majesty the Queen.
God Preserve the Prince of Wales.
Rule Britannia!
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