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From: "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: Hi Davey
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 17:42:02 +0100
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> Uncle Davey wrote:
> >> Uncle Davey wrote:
> >>> Uzytkownik <hdsienkiewicz@yahoo.com> napisal w wiadomosci
> >>> news:1104741408.314216.10300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >>>> Jason Gastrich wrote:
> >>>>> Davey,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Did you have a good weekend?
> >>>
> >>> It wasn't that magnificent, thanks. I had to go to Tczew on Sunday
> >>> for an inventory count, and the road wasn't fantastic, but thanks
> >>> for asking.
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What's new?
> >>>
> >>> Not much. Lots of work to do.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Davey posted and said he was leaving the groups for a bit, Jason.
> >>>
> >>> I didn't last long.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I'm still gonna be posting hardly anything. No time.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I wonder what he'll think of
> >>>> http://www.geocities.com/hdsienkiewicz/JG_DOC_A.jpg ?
> >>>> And isn't email a better place for chit-chat?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I'll tell you you what I think, David, I think it was a court error.
> >>>
> >>> In my experience court clerks make a lot of errors, after all, who's
> >>> gonna sue 'em? I remember the patience I had to have with them in my
> >>> limited experience.
> >>>
> >>> I haven't read enough yet since getting back from my inventory count
> >>> attendances all over this country to know whether Jason says it is a
> >>> court error, but I simply do not believe he would have been dumb
> >>> enough to state 200 USD if he knew very well you could get hold of
> >>> something that said 2000 USD.
> >>>
> >>> Uncle Davey
> >>
> >> Wow, Davey hit the nail on the head. This is exactly right.
> >>
> >> God bless,
> >> Jason
> >
> > I have the odd bit of discernment here and there as you know, and now
> > I have a little message for you, which you are at liberty to take on
> > or not depending on whether the Spirit confirms these words to you.
> >
> > David Sienkiewicz is not so far gone as to forge changes to
> > documents. This is something he will not do, according to my reading
> > of him, nevertheless he is so prejudiced against the evangelical side
> > that he automatically assumes some blame on your part when the
> > document says something other than what you expected it to.
> >
> > My reading of the way Durango Bill has added this to his site is that
> > he actually knows very well that it was a court error, and is
> > slagging you off for saying 'no' when you I dare say were fairly sure
> > that the note said 200USD because you hadn't noticed that it came
> > back with an error on saying 2000 USD. This has been taken in a
> > recent post by Sienkiewicz to mean that Bill also thinks you were
> > lying about the 200USD, but here again he shows his prejudice, as the
> > way Bill phrases it gives the game away that he knew it was only an
> > oversight on your part. Otherwise he would have stressed the matter
> > differently.
>
> Wise words. My thoughts exactly.
>
> > David's got you lumped in with the Benny Hinns and their ilk, which
> > is a great pity for two reasons, firstly because you are not of their
> > ilk, and are truly God's saved child, even with all your faults - no
> > bigger than mine I hasten to add - and this I know because it takes
> > an experienced person from within Evangelical Christianity to discern
> > the difference, they cannot.
>
> Good point.
>
> Benny Hinn is a fraud for a number of reasons. This can be verified at
> http://apologeticsindex.org. In fact, it's a huge archive or frauds.
>
> > That is why you have to be more careful
> > in the way some things are presented. You have the right, as someone
> > who has dedicated a full-time level of work to evangelism, to be
> > supported in your cost of living by other believers, and this is
> > absolutely no different to the priests of catholicism and the vicars
> > of anglicanism that they would not give a second thought to and whom
> > they do not attack as fraudulent because they live from the gifts of
> > believers. They are sensitive about it, my suggestion is that you are
> > simply up front about the fact that you do live from the love gifts
> > of God's people in the same way as other full time Christian workers
> > do, and be a bit careful with the way you present certain things that
> > help you make a living. You can see how far they go to misunderstand
> > this and behave as though you were building marble halls on the backs
> > of these donations, rather than them being an essential part of any
> > full-time ministry, and no different to the money raising that goes
> > on in any church that has full-time ministers.
>
> I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. I suppose you thought it
> was pertinent.
I am writing it for their sakes, so that they can see that they are not
applying the same criterion when they should be between your living and the
living of other ministers whom they don't criticise.
>
> > The second reason why it's a pity is that if all this energy were
> > being given by David Sienkiewicz in exposing real religious
> > charlatans, then you and I would probably be among the first to
> > applaud it.
>
> Amen.
>
> > It's true that we are only promised that the sheep and
> > the goats in the Church are separated at the end of time, but the
> > occasional exposure of a wolf in sheep's clothing here and there -
> > even by a non-Christian, is something I would not get in the way of.
>
> Amen.
>
> > As it is he is like someone pulling at your fleece, and although it
> > doesn't come off whenever there is a cry of pain from the sheep he
> > thinks is suspect he says "hmnn. that sounded a bit wolfy, that did,
> > better yank some more". The more he tugs away at that fleece, and
> > even some of the hairs come of in his hand, the more he thinks he is
> > about to get the fleece off and reveal the bristly grey lupine coat
> > beneath, but all he is doing is confirming his prejudices. That is,
> > until they fall, which, God willing, they will, and he will see
> > himself an imperfect man fighting another imperfect man for the
> > simple reason that this other imperfect man has been received by God
> > through Christ.
>
> Good words.
>
> > Maybe this is the way God is calling him. Maybe he has to go through
> > this wrestling match with you in order to get a blessing. Israel was
> > always a wrestler, and he will not let you go unless God bless him,
> > even if it means a metaphorical wound on the thigh. This is of course
> > not good news for you as the one who gets to play the role of the
> > angel in that Genesis 32 scenario, but in the end if you can turn his
> > trying to cause you a penalty into you causing him a Peniel, then
> > everyone is blessed in the end. That's why I think it may have been
> > hasty for you to promise not to speak to him. He needs mercy and
> > love, in the end, like every sinner. And the gospel is as we read to
> > the Jew first and then to the Greek. It's always a priviledge to be
> > able to take God's own truth to God's own people. I think that, hard
> > as it is, you're gonna need to engage him. My "prophesy", if you
> > wanna call it that, is that David Sienkiewicz is actually in the
> > Elect, but will only realise that against his will and will only be
> > brought to the Mercy Seat a-kickin' and a-scratchin' and
> > a-fleece-pullin'. Ignoring him isn't gonna do it. If you go fishing,
> > there's no point in cutting your line when there's a marlin on the
> > end of it. You've gotta reel that big fish in. With a really big fish
> > it can take other fishermen to hold the rod with you and stop it
> > getting yanked out of your hands, and I can do that bit, but it's
> > your fish.
>
> I have been thinking about this prophesy a bit. Do you have the gift of
> prophesy? Have you prophesied other things that have happened? Have you
> ever made a false prophesy?
I have only made one other prophesy, when I was forced into it by the Andrew
Sheldrake that I mention in this article.
I wrote it three years ago, almost, as you can see.
http://www.google.co.uk/groups?q=uncle+davey+sheldrake&hl=en&lr=&selm=3c7b3d89%2410%40news.ptt.ru&rnum=1
You notice I call him a very charismatic person. The full meaning of that
you can understand better than the people I was writing to about it at the
time, for he was very much into the Charismatic movement, telling me that I
wasn't growing in grace if I didn't start developing spiritual gifts such as
speaking in tongues, healing (he reckoned I had a 'leg difference' and tried
to 'heal' me of it, but it didn't do any good, but thsi was down to my lack
of faith, of course)
We were in Berlin, it was the Summer of 1982, and we had gone over there to
do some summer work as German language practice and shared the same
accommodation. He was mobbing me continually to speak in tongues and
prophesy, and was continually making prophesies about my life, not of which
have come true so far. The one he was most sure of is that I would marry a
girl he picked out of my college photograph who was called Sarah, and oddly
enough he picked out someone who was in the Christian Union (she wasn't
wearing any badge or anything) which was already enough to persuade him that
he'd had my future wife revealed to him as a dead cert, (she was a good
looking girl, but nothing came of it as I discovered that her views were
rather irredeemably woolly and liberal, and I found this rather offputting,
and she hardly came to any of the meetings anyway, and went to some Anglican
Church which I don't think I would have been very comfortable in). Anyway,
he was mobbing me to make some prophesy, until I really had had quite enough
of this and was really on the point of regretting that I had come out there
with him to be made to feel like a second class Christian, and I don't know
why, but I said "OK, I prophesy that your future wife will be Kirsten". This
was a red headed girl in the Lutheran Church Jugendgruppe at Steglitz,
Berlin, where we were attending.
I don't even know why I said it. I wished I hadn't, but in the worst case if
it had been wrong, then the meaning is that I had no prophesy gift after
all.
I lost contact with Andrew Sheldrake over the years, he went his way and I
went mine, and I tried to make contact with him a couple of times but
neither of our hearts were particularly in it, as I think he was really
upset with me when I failed to go to Germany for his wedding with Kirsten
when I, after all, had prophesied it, but I had some other unavoidable
engagement that I cannot even remember now what it was - most probably I was
simply in debt as I was poor as a student and probably didn't have the money
to go.
I did manage some years down the track to get his phone number, but he
wasn't massively interested in small talk with me, and I have to say I found
his manner still rather terse. I myself had gotten into pretty bad
backsliding and bad behaviour in the mean time, so I wasn't in a fit state
to really be companionable to another Christian anyway.
Since that time I haven't made any more prophesies, as such. Anyone who
might be remotely interested can try and track down Andrew Sheldrake
originally from Haywards Heath in Southern England to verify my claim to
have made a true prophesy concerning his marriage, and one can also, if one
is remotely interested, sift through the 8,700 articles on Usenet in this
archive
http://www.google.co.uk/groups?q=+%22Uncle+Davey%22+author:noway%40jose.com&hl=en&lr=&scoring=d
and another 3,000 under other munges that I can supply to those still hungry
for more, to see if I have made any other prophesies since then. I don't
remember any, although certainly I have shown on occasion much discernment
about things that were happening or going to happen. I have also been able
to make very accurate forecasts about the directions of currencies, interest
rates and house prices in my professional life that helped anyone who
listened to them prosper, as well as helping me to get the chunk of money
which I lost in my divorce, which chunk is described and quantified in
various parts of my posting history, that I don't need to return to. I
wouldn't call them 'prophesies' though. I've never been able to foresee
lottery numbers or stuff like that, which would be an abuse anyway, and I
put the other stuff down to a certain gift of discernment.
There are some outstanding predictions that I have made, such that Poland
will become the first country in history to leave the European Union, and
that Belarus will be free nine years from now. Again these are utterances of
discernment, and not prophesies. I have also uttered that corals floated
during the Flood and that at Babel each person received a unique language,
rather than a family language, but these again are not prophesies, as apart
from anything else they refer to past events, but we will only know at
time's end what the truth of the matter is. I have a number of these, and I
don't want to be unduly dogmatic about any of them, or one fine day I might
wake up the leader of some dodgy sect, which is the last thing I need.
And of course there is prophesy is art and in poetry, and here again the
meaning of "prophesy" is different to that in the charismata. Akhmatova
wrote "the poet is always right". This is more in the line of
self-fulfilling prophesy.
I will say that this current "prophesy" is more a matter of "discernment"
than real prophesy, as I have no idea whether David actually needs your
involvement to get saved, I merely have a conviction that this probably will
happen, with or without you, although it would be more encouraging for you
to be involved.
If you decide not to be, you shouldn't feel guily, though, as an elect
person will always come in one way or the other. This is the doctrine of
Irresistible Grace. I just thought that it would be a great encouragement to
you to reel him into the Kingdom.
>
> I'm just curious. I know it's a real spiritual gift. I also know that we
> can't just speak any old thing into existence, though.
I wouldn't try to do that. It's a matter of discernment, and with
discernment one thing is certainly true and that is, that people ought not
to follow another Christian's discernment if it conflicts with their own
discernment about something in their own lives. Discernment about what is
good for another is only good if it doesn't overrule the discernment they
have. If your commitment to ignoring David Sienkiewicz is spiritually
discerned, then because it concerns your life it overrules my discernment
that it would be good for you to continue.
Otherwise discernment becomes an excuse for Christians to boss each other
around on the basis of what seems right in their own eyes, which is
something I am completely against and nothing but trouble lies that way.
Positive exhortation is fine, but bossiness isn't fine, and to keep it that
way we Christians need to remember that each of us has guidance from the
Holy Spirit while we are not grieving the Spirit.
>
> > It's gonna take a lot of prayer, a lot of time, a lot of
> > ego-bruising, a lot of re-adjustment of style, a lot of pain. But
> > it's gonna be worth it, because that old Jew, as he calls himself, is
> > gonna get born again. And there's gonna be rejoicing in heaven. Amen.
> >
> > Uncle Davey
>
> Maybe, maybe not. So far, I haven't seen any interest in the person or
love
> of Christ. All I see is scorn, bitterness, and misused energy.
Some people just get born that way, if you get my drift.
>
> At any rate, if you believe that he is going to get saved, then be
> persistent in talking to him about Jesus Christ. Or consult God and see
> which path He would have you take. As for me, I'm done with him. Many
> times, he has told me that he will "bring down" me and my ministry.
Exactly. He has selected the one of us that his inner soul would like to
bring him to God, and it isn't me.
This is why I personally think it would be a pity to give up on him, and in
your shoes I wouldn't, but like I just said, my guidance is for my life and
your guidance is for your life.
> He
> takes every issue, no matter how small, and acts like they're HUGE, while
> demanding countless responses from me, putting me down, painting me in a
bad
> light, etc. He can do this by himself as far as I'm concerned. There was
a
> time when Christ shook the dirt from his shoes and this is my time.
But Christ didn't do that to his worst persecutor, which was Saul of Tarsus.
And what we have here is a Saul of Tarsus type, and his persecution of us is
exactly what I would expect.
> I have much work to do. I need to press on and speak to people who are
> actually willing to talk about Jesus, the mysteries of God, the difference
> He has made in people's lives, the fruits of the Spirit, the stories of
the
> Bible, etc. You know. The exciting and interesting things! This has
been
> an overall poor place for evangelism because there are precious few
> believers and far more mockers, scoffers, God-haters, etc.
>
> If someone were to repent on usenet, they would probably just leave. I
> could not see how they could possibly stick around and face the evildoers
> that curse at Christians. They'd at least need some healthy time away to
> grow in their faith.
It's not the greatest place for newborn Christians, Jason. Aqui tienes
milion veces razon. That's why I'm glad that someone I helped a lot when
they came to faith in another group which is a complete and perfect trolls'
picnic area a couple of years ago didn't hang around much after.
Nevertheless, let's remember the words of the great missionary C.T. Studd,
who ran missions to India, China and Africa spanning the 19th and 20th
centuries. He said:
"Some want to live within the sound
Of Church or Chapel bell
I'd rather build a rescue shop
Within a yard of hell"
I know missionaries who went to the Austrian Tyrol, an area whose lifestyle
and GDP certainly outstrips that of the part of the UK they came from and I
know missionaries who went to Nepal where people can lose their gonads and
other jewels amongst the legendary fierce gurkha tribespeople for getting
their back up and where civil war is raging. I know many others from many
other places but these are if you like the extremes of cushy mission versus
non-cushy mission. I would always prefer to support the folks in Nepal than
these guys in a country where they can be looking down the barrel of nothing
more heatpacking than a freshly baked apfelstrudel. In the range of
missionfields, if kaffee und kuchen on the pistes by Innsbruck, and some
kleine nachtmusik in Salzburg after that can described as a 1 in severity,
and getting ambushed by bandits in the Himalayas can be put at a 10, I'd
give this place a 2-3 ranking, no higher.
> Now, this has been your mission field for some time, Davey. How has your
> progress been? If you were to submit your experiences and time spent to a
> Board, would they be pleased?
I'm not a menpleaser, and no-one finances my efforts but me. I am really
only interested in whether God is pleased, and that is the question we all
need to ask ourselves.
In the end of the day salvation is about individuals. That means that the
shoal of mackerel on the radar approach is necessary to get out the Gospel
to many people and you correctly, one year ago, steered me in the direction
of setting up a website that could reach more people with the Gospel than my
usenet activities. That has happened and I have the plan this year to double
the content that I added this year, so that by the end of 2005 I have 3
times the content that I have now.
Nevertheless, although your fine stats machines show that people with pretty
flags from all over the world have been reading my articles, I still need to
be able to address people on a direct level as well. That means having a lot
more patience. Sure, there is a chance that some will not have been as
effective a use of time as others, but I am not the one who can measure
that, and neither is any board, unless God have mercy on them and tell them
the right answer.
> I'm asking these questions because your time is precious. You (and I)
need
> to spend our time wisely. If you've spent thousands of hours on usenet
with
> no converts, then perhaps you should shake the dirt from your shoes . . .
or
> at least give yourself some guidelines and parameters regarding posting
and
> reading people's messages; as I have done.
>
My parameters for 2005 are this:
In 2004 I posted 3506 messages to Usenet. This will be halved in 2005, at
least. That means the most messages I can post in 2005 is 1753, or 4,79 per
day, and this being the 24th so far this year I am still on par for that.
My other parameter, to at least double the www. output, I just mentioned.
> I'm not encouraging you to give up. I'm just encouraging you to use your
> time wisely. If you could win 10 people to Christ in January through
> posting messages in forums, for instance, would you choose that medium
over
> usenet?
What fora are these, and how do we know that more people will see them who
do not see usenet? Why are they devoid of the kind of battle we have here?
Censored discourse I have to say is of little interest to me.
> I've taken my ministry to forums and to ezboards. I'm going to return to
> them very soon because it will be part of a project I'm doing. I'm
looking
> forward to it, too. For some reason, people are far more respectable and
> curious about Christ there. Of course, you also run into people that
> zealously believe odd things. It's good to talk to them too, though.
>
> God bless,
> Jason
I wish you well with it, and you too.
Uncle Davey
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