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From: Heinz Kiosk <nospamplease.tom.mcclelland@ntlworld.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: Another Augustine quotation
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:13:25 +0000 (UTC)
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Uncle Davey wrote:
> news:31kckeF3c9f8bU1@individual.net...
>
>>
>>"Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message
>>news:cp06k6$s5v$0@pita.alt.net...
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>Uncle Davey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>news:cov1r0024b8@drn.newsguy.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> In Augustine's book "De Libero Arbitrario" (which is mostly about
>>>>>>the problem of evil and free will) he spends chapter 21 of book 3
>>>>>>talking about the origin of a human's soul. He mentions four
>>>>>>different theories, and says that he has no strong evidence for
>>>>>>any of them. He then goes on to say that it is not a matter of
>>>>>>importance for the Christian:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"So what does it matter to me if I do not know when I began to
>
> exist,
>
>>>>>>since I know that I exist now, and I do not despair of existing in
>
> the
>
>>>>>>future? There is no great harm done if I have false beliefs about
>
> the
>
>>>>>past,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>since the past is of no concern to me; I direct my course toward
>
> what
>
>>I
>>
>>>am
>>>
>>>>>>going to be, guided by the mercy of my Creator."
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>from page 113 of
>>>>>
>>>>>>Augustine: On Free Choice of the Will
>>>>>>translated by Thomas Williams
>>>>>>Indianapolis: Hackett Publishing, 1993
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I am sure there is a certain wisdom in these words and that's why I
>>
>>have
>>
>>>>>never said here that you have to believe in a literal six days to be
>>>
>>>saved.
>>>
>>>>>I happen to believe them, and in the Flood and Babel and a lot of
>>
>>other
>>
>>>>>stuff but I am not dogmatic about them.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Only dogma can make you believe in those things, against the
>
> background
>
>>>>of the overwhelming evidence that they did not happen.
>>>>
>>>>Tom
>>>
>>>Not really. To me there is a structure of thought and internal
>>
>>corroboration
>>
>>>that makes the whole of my system which is coherent to me, and answers
>>>questions that other systems cannot to my satisfaction.
>>>
>>>Uncle Davey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>So you are saying that you do not care wether something is real or
>
> not....as
>
>>long as you get a warm fuzzy feeling ?
>>
>
>
> No, the evolutionist system is the one that gives the warm, fuzzy feelings.
I don't get you. On the one hand you have evidence-based explanations
that say nothing about going to heaven but tell us that the bible is not
literal truth. On the other hand you have faith where you do go to
heaven if you adopt a fairly minimal set of requirements. Very
comforting surely? These two sets of beliefs aren't even necessarily
mutually exclusive as long as you don't cling to irrational biblical
literalism. But you are saying that the evidence-based beliefs that
don't get you to heaven are the "warm fuzzy ones". Bizarre.
>
> What I believe makes you left outside alone.
I find the word "you" in that sentence hard to parse. Are you concerned
for us rationalists/non-literalists or for your own soul?
> It's not okay, I don't feel safe, I need to ... pray.
From this sentence I take it that its the latter. Remember to pray for
guidance, not for the strength to continue to believe in nonsense.
Tom
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