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From: johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: Taking My Leave
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 00:58:03 +0000 (UTC)
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Uncle Davey <noway@jose.com> wrote:
> news:1goew60.118dn6d12f9kh9N%johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au...
> > Chris Thompson <cthompson@TAKEOUTbmcc.cuny.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in news:cot1qd$g92$0@pita.alt.net:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >> In article <1go5rcs.1h712vp1s8qhefN%johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au>,
> > > >> John Wilkins <johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au> wrote:
> > > >> >Chris Thompson <cthompson@TAKEOUTbmcc.cuny.edu> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in
> > > >> >> news:cokmni$4h0$0@pita.alt.net:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > news:Xns95B154247508B2galopagosterrapincy@128.8.10.18...
> > > >> >> >> AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > > >> >> >> news:slrncqn8t1.d1.mightymartianca@aaronclausen.alberni.net:
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> > (I still think Uncle Davey should stop referring to Muslims
> > > >> >> >> > as Muzzles, it's disrespectful and hateful).
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> Agreed
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > When J. K. Rowling stops referring to non new age people as
> > > >> >> > 'Muggles' then I'll stop referring to Islamists as "Muzzles". It
> > > >> >> > may not be as
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Um, Rowling is writing *fantasy*. Just to get that clear. And
> > > > "muggles"
> > > >> >> aren't "non new age people". They are fictitious people who are
> > > >> >> incapable of using magic.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >And Rowling has her characters make it perfectly clear it is a term
> > > >> >of bigotry, ignorance and prejudice. So far, Davey, you're batting a
> > > >> >thousand, as the Anericans say.
> > > >>
> > > >> Actually it is "mudblood" that is the term of bigotry, ignorance, and
> > > >> prejudice. "Muggle" is used by pretty much everyone in the books
> > > >> (even the highly enlightened Dumbledore) to describe non-magical
> > > >> folk.
> > > >
> > > > Thank goodness somebody around here knows what they're talking about
> > > > instead of shooting off at the mouth without having anything in the
> > > > head to show for it.
> > > >
> > > > Uncle Davey
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Note that Alan was not *supporting* your behavior. He was correcting
> > > John Wilkins.
> >
> > And I still think that "Muggle" is a term of discrimination in Rowling's
> > wizard world. Mr Weasley's obsession with Muggle artifacts is regarded
> > by Wizards with disdain, remember? The fact that Muggle parentage makes
> > Hermione a Mudblood is sufficient to support that interpretation.
>
> I think that this is beside the point. The people who support Voldemort want
> to destroy the Muggles, and the Order of the Phoenix want to help the
> Muggles, but they still call them Muggles. The pejorative term is
> "Mudbloods". No member of the Order of the Phoenix would refer to Hermione
> as a Mudblood, but they would call her a Muggle.
Perhaps. It is, as we philosophers say, a term of privation - defined in
terms of what it is *not*. When Hagrid tells Harry he's a wizard, he is
defining him in terms of what he *is* - but calling all the rest of the
people "Muggles" is a privative definition.
Such terms serve to mark the in-group from the out-group in social
discourse. Out-groups get discriminated against in law and convention.
It is, I believe, wrong.
>
> Well, I'm not calling Muslims Muzbloods, I'm calling them Muzzlemanians, or
> Muzzles for short.
It is a derogatory term, no matter how you spin it. None of these terms
are what they call themselves, and the closest I can get to it in
western use is "Musselman", which went out of favour in the mid-19thC.
And even then it was a term of derogation.
"Muslim" is not derogatory. "Islamist" is not derogatory, although it
applies to a particular variety of Islamic supremism. So long as you are
accurate, there is no insult. But what you suggest is as insulting as
"cathos" for catholics or "protties" for Protestants. Imagine how, if
you were at an ecumenical service, the local Catholic priest would be
received if he referred to hsi Protestant Christian brethren as
"protties"...
>
> And sticks and stones and aircraft bashing into the sides of buildings can
> break my bones, but names can never hurt me.
Davey! Where *do* you live? Of *course* names can hurt - they do
psychological harm to young children, they incite people to violence and
discrimination, and they cause reactions that can get violent in turn.
Calling your opponents derogatory names is what bigotry is famous for.
>
> > >
> > > I also note that you make an unmarked snip in Alan's post. Let's just
> > > restore that, eh?
> > >
> > > ***START EXCISED MATERIAL***
> > > It doesn't make the mental gymnastics required to justify the behavior
> > > any less impressive, however. Bravo.
> > >
> > > Alan
> > > ***END***
> > >
> > > Kind of looks like Alan also thinks your behavior in this regard stinks.
> > >
> > > Just keep piling sleazy act upon sleazy act. I am sure some deity
> > > somewhere is keeping score.
>
> It's not sleazy to snip aspects that you are not speaking to, it is
> required.
Only if you are not evading the point of the thread, or making someone
seem to say something they are not.
--
John S. Wilkins john@wilkins.id.au
web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
God cheats
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