"Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message news:<c548sa$bg6$0@pita.alt.net>...
> Uzytkownik "Frank Pericope" <frank.pericope@oneimage.com> napisal w
> wiadomosci news:dc55e47f.0404081000.12e22453@posting.google.com...
> > "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message
> news:<c51usg$8su$0@pita.alt.net>...
> > > Uzytkownik "Livid" <barthfv@telus.net> napisal w wiadomosci
> > > news:a95611ff.0404070947.1f316607@posting.google.com...
<snip for brevity>
> > > >
> > > > As a gay man who has seen endless atrocities at the hands of
> > > > innumerable right-wing christians, I couldn't agree more.Those who
> > > > claim to have the one and only truth, are the terrorists we see today
> > > > , be they muslim or christian.
> > > > I fiercely defend religious liberty.But the very pinnacle of hypocrisy
> > > > is to "cherry pick" items out of the Old Testament and attempt to
> > > > foist them on others.Believe what you will,but do not attempt to
> > > > incorporate your beliefs into law. Then there is the phenomenon of
> > > > creating perpetually,the negative mindset that leads directly to
> > > > anti-gay violence & murder.The mother of a young college student who
> > > > was murdered in Laramie,Wyoming,said afterward, that she didn't blame
> > > > the young men who killed her son so much as society for giving them
> > > > permission to do so .Guess which segment of the population that would
> > > > be ?
> > > > Livid
> > >
> > > Not us, that's for sure, so maybe she should make like OJ and go after
> the
> > > real killers.
> > >
> > > Uncle Davey
> >
> > Unlike OJ, she didn't kill the victim. Unlike OJ, Matthew Shepards'
> > killers have been caught.
> >
> > But unlike Livid, you don't have a clue, do you?
> >
> > Gee, Davey, tell me: how do you feel about gays and lesbians? Do you
> > think they should be allowed to marry? Do you think they are sinners
> > of a different nature than you or I?
>
>
> I think my sins are no better than theirs, but I do feel that marriage is
> ordained between men and women.
Why? 1 Timothy 4:1-5 specifically admonishes us against forbidding
marriage or foods based on the laws of Moses. Or don't you like those
verses?
I know Paul is said to have ranted about gays. But he also said single
Christians should not marry. Would you support laws that forbid them
from marrying, too? If not, why the inconsistency, other than your
personal preference?
I have no objections to the same tax and
> inheritance law priviledges being applied to their partnerships as to ours
> in democratic society, but I feel that they should look for another word
> other than marriage to describe their civil unions.
Ah, they should use the 'colored' restrooms, eh?
I feel that they are
> stealing from us when they apply the term marriage to their unions.
Are hetero folks outside of Christianity 'stealing' from us when they
call their unions marriage? Or by "us" do you mean all heteros? I feel
*no* loss at extending marriage to cover homosexuals. In fact, I will
feel a huge gain if our 'club' stops being so exclusive.
If we
> allow that, then why not three person marriages with bi-sexuals, or even
> group marriages? Where's the cut-off?
The cut-off is consenting adults.
As far as I am concerned civil society
> can even recognise some of these less orthodox three way unions as well and
> give them tax and inheritance breaks, but please don't use the Biblical term
> for them, use another term.
If you permit non-Christians to call their hetero unions 'marriage',
why not homosexuals--unless it's just your personal predjudice?
How is your position different from allegedly 'Christian' positions
that were held in opposition to interracial marriage? Google "Loving
vs. Virginia" to see how a Virginia judge projected his personal
predjudice onto the will of God to support his decision to uphold the
law forbidding a white mand from marrying a black woman. It's
sickening, and only removed from your position by degrees.
> I also am not in favour of allowing adoption of kids by homosexual couples.
> If they can do deals amongst themselves with the lesbians and obtain
> children through these deals, then I would not reduce their freedom to keep
> those children, but I would not put them in the adoption system.
Why not? On what basis do your presume a 'homosexual' home would be no
better than a foster home or orphanage? There are far more children
awaiting adoption than hetero couples willing to adopt. You would
condemn those children to further misery. Are you afraid homosexuality
is contagious?
>
> That's probably not toleration enough for your liking, but it's all the
> compromise I am comfortable with, and already enough to make some believers
> wince at me for going too far.
I have no doubt Jason Gastrich would disagree with even your smidgen
of "separate but equal" tolerance.
>
> > Do you think making a joke about a murder committed by folks using
> > your religions' morals as justification is funny?
>
> I think my reaction to Livid's post was justified. He says that a gay was
> killed, which was obviously not by evangelical christians as we are not
> called to go killing gays, but his mother blames another group, guess who,
> rather than the boys killers.
You cleary do not have a clue.
Matthew's mother blames all who foster or accept intolerance for gays.
It is not, despite your martyr complex, limited to ECs.
>
> If the gay guys own mother wanted to use his death as propaganda against
> christians rather than blame the ones who actually did it, then I truly feel
> sorry for that dead guy, I really do.
So a society which accepts predudice and bigotry and thereby
reinforces the repression of homosexuality plays no role? He wasn't
just a murder victim who happened to be gay. He was murdered *because*
he was gay, Davey.
In a society where Christians are considered sub-human and are not
given equal treatment by the majority of citizens or the government of
that society, do only their killers deserve blame when one of those
Christians is martyred for his faith? Or might the killers expect that
they were doing society a favor?
> I find it insulting that we should be somehow smeared with a murder that is
> nothing to do with us. I thought it was a low tactic, and I felt free to
> ridicule it. I'm not ridiculing the dead man. If everyone were like me, he
> would not be dead.
>
> Uncle Davey
"We" are not smeared. Not you and I, and not all Christians. On the
other hand, your unwillingness to accept homosexuals as fully human
and your desire to force them to drink from a different fountain, as
it were, does mean you share some of the blame, whether you like it or
not. It's just a matter of degree.
And God help us if everyone were like you, Davey.
- F.
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