<up pericope>
<frank.pericope@oneimage.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:dc55e47f.0404060458.5476a575@posting.google.com...
> "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message
news:<c4sei2$bi3$0@pita.alt.net>...
> > "Frank Pericope" <frank.pericope@oneimage.com> wrote in message
> > news:dc55e47f.0404050427.19f264a1@posting.google.com...
> > > "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message
> > news:<c4p34t$s0t$0@pita.alt.net>...
> > > > Uzytkownik "Frank Pericope" <frank.pericope@oneimage.com> napisal w
> > > > wiadomosci news:dc55e47f.0404040515.46fbda6d@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > We're all capable of righteousness, as well as unrighteousness.
> > > > >
> > > > > - F.
> > > >
> > > > When it says 'there is none righteous, no not one', that means that
by
> > > > nature we actually aren't capable of righteousness.
> > >
> > > Davey, that's a song lyric. I understand it has that meaning for you,
> > > but unless you have some authority/source no one else has (Gastrich,
> > > perhaps?) neither Romans nor Psalms means what you want it to mean.
> > >
> > > Though it explains a lot if you think you are incapable of good
> > > behavior without God's direct intervention.
> > >
> >
> > Not think.
> > Know.
> > If you think you can do good without God's help, then you have not yet
> > understood something.
>
> I disagree. But of course, I'm no one's authority. Why don't you tell
> me all about what I need to understand? You seem to be pretty
> confident that you know more than me. Show me.
>
> >
> > > >
> > > > If God enables us to act righteously in any case, then that's to be
> > thankful
> > > > for.
> > > >
> > > > In any event, in practice Christians often are a lot worse than
atheists
> > and
> > > > people who believe in religions without the Saviour, after all,
> > Christians
> > > > are under attack in a way they are not.
> > >
> > > Oh phooey. I am not under attack.
> >
> > I'm sure you're not.
> > After all, you go around telling your brothers not to evangelise. What
> > devils would attck you for that?
>
> I do not tell anyone not to evangelize. I suggest that it's my opinion
> that anyone's evangelizing will be much more successful if they'd set
> an example rather than a trap.
>
> > You've already signed up to the Faustian pact, I'm sure you have peace
like
> > a river.
>
> Sorry, though I've played Marlow's Faust on stage, I've never actually
> sold my soul. Of course, Jason will tell you that, as I was once
> saved, I'm always saved. So, according to your hero, I can sign just
> such a contract and have no fear of its enforcement. (Some doctrine,
> huh?!) So if you're a fan of Jason's, you needn't worry about my soul.
> But thanks for your obvious concern.
>
> On the other hand, I think OSAS's a load of hooey.
>
> >
> > > None of the Christians I know are
> > > under attack. And most Christians who think themselves under attack
> > > would, I think, find their way much easier if they would but stop
> > > mind-tackling unbelievers and simply do their best to live the values
> > > espoused by Christ.
> > >
> >
> > You are absolutely right!
> > The quickest way to stop being under attack is to stop evangelising.
> > No news to me.
> > You don't mention how we can live the values espoused by Christ without
> > preaching the gospel and getting into conflict situations, when this is
> > precisely what He told us to do, though, do you?
> >
>
> I'm not sure you understand my posiiton. I don't see anything wrong
> with contending with others who's faith differs from yours. I just
> think you'll find it to better effect if you demonstrate humility,
> integrity, love, etc. rather than vanity, arrogance, and deceit. Call
> me crazy...!
>
> >
> > > For example -- think evolution's wrong? Fine. Live without it. But
> > > building sandcastles in the mind and trying to sell them as real
> > > estate in public is going to lead to some derision. As you have seen.
> > >
> >
> > Evolution is a big fairy tale, but in point of fact the gospel is big
enough
> > to cope with people believing it, if only they believe that Christ has
died
> > in their place because they needed it. If you say you can do good on
your
> > own, then did you need Christ to die in your place? Isn't his death on
> > Calvary rather wasted on you?
>
> Doing good isn't the way, Davey. I thought that was made pretty clear
> in the New Testament. Doing good is good, and it's expected of us; but
> salvation is through Christ, right? Isn't that why we needed him?
> Wasn't that pretty much the whole point?
>
> >
> > > Ideally, knowing the love and the
> > > > forgiveness of God, we should be walking head and shoulders about
other
> > men
> > > > and women in goodness, but in actual fact this seems very hard to
> > achieve
> > > > and is very rare.
> > >
> > > I agree it is difficult. But too many of us use that as an excuse for
> > > our own behavior. And if one's public behavior brings significant
> > > levels of condemnation from both believers and unbelievers, perhaps
> > > one should consider 'cutting off' that hand and withdrawing from
> > > public forums until one can behave in a righteous way--at least more
> > > often than not.
> > >
> > > But that's just my opinion.
> > >
> >
> > Well I take the view that if I preach the Gospel, people will seek to
> > compromise me. They will take terrific exception to things about me, no
> > doubt imperfections, but which would be fine if I were on the side of
either
> > works religion or rejection of religion.
>
> People's objections to your behavior may not be the result of the
> message you carry, but of the way that you betray that message with
> your actions. Even if your claim to persecution were true, it is not
> evidence that your persecution is a result of the message you carry.
> It may be evidence of a martyr complex, though.
>
> Why be on any 'side', Davey? What's the point of doctrinal squabbling?
> Let go the doctrine and trust in Christ. Follow his example. Call no
> man 'teacher', as we are intructed. It's all in there. You don't need
> to hear it from some guy whose speech can't even keep your mind off
> breakfast.
>
> >
> > Should such imperfections, even when people take the max mileage out of
them
> > because of the mastery in spin that they have developed over the years
of
> > Usenet and RL activity, stop me from stating what I believe to be true?
> > Well, according to what I believe to be true, no. I am telling you that
I am
> > a sinner, so don't look at me, look at Christ for salvation. That's the
> > whole point.
>
> If you state it with integrity, they will discuss it with you. If your
> behavior lacks integrity, humility, and love, they will count you a
> hypocrite and the message you shout will be lost.
>
> >
> > > >
> > > > I know I can't seem to achieve it, myself. I couldn't even listen
> > through
> > > > the second sermon this morning without dreaming up a new pancake
recipe.
> > >
> > > Godly behavior does not, it seems to me, come from listening to
> > > sermons. IMHO, organized religion does as much spiritual damage as it
> > > does good. You might find yourself more interested if your authority
> > > is Christ rather than that guy standing up in front of the crowd.
> >
> > Preaching sermons is a God ordained way to spread truth and help the
flock
> > to grow. The sermon was extremely good and pointed to the authoty of
Christ,
> > not his own authority, but if we do not put time aside to go and think
about
> > these things, it is easy to forget them.
>
> I disagree. I see plenty of instruction by Christ warning us against
> calling other men 'father' and 'teacher'; or calling ourselves
> teachers. The calls for priesthood come from elsewhere--from mere men.
>
> >
> > >
> > > You are perfectly capable of leading a goodly life, Uncle Davey. Quit
> > > making excuses for failing to do so. "The devil made me do it" is a
> > > punch line, not an alibi.
> > >
> >
> > You obviously don't really have much in depth knowledge of the devil,
but
> > one thing is true, I can manage to be iniquitous pefectly well even
without
> > his help.
>
> And if I were to say you obviously don't really have much in-depth
> knowlege of the Christ, I'd have a much authority as you to back up my
> presumption. Which is to say, none.
>
> So who do you blame for your iniquity, Davey? Adam? Eve? (Hmmm...)
> Satan? God? Or yourself? If it's your iniquity, it's yours to change.
The world, the flesh and the devil.
> >
> > > <snip story>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Which just goes to show we get better than we deserve.
> > > >
> > > > Uncle Davey
> > >
> > > Which may also show you that you'd do better publishing pancake
> > > recipies than spiritual ones.
> > >
> >
> > The one does not exclude the other.
> >
> > Fresh garden peas, fried onions, philadelphia cream cheese and
mayonnaise on
> > a blini mix is good, but eye hath not seen, nor ear heard neither has
> > enetered into the heart of man, the things that God hath prepared for
them
> > that love him.
> >
> > Uncle Davey
>
> Mix all the good intentions you can muster into a large bowl. Blend in
> 1 cup hostility, a dash of paranoia; season with vanity and arrogance,
> to taste, and stir in public.
>
> Makes enough asphalt to pave a broad, meandering road to hell.
>
> - F.
<down pericope>
This ain't no technological breakdance.
Uncle Davey
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