Uzytkownik "Matt Silberstein" <matts2nopam@ix netcom.nospamcom> napisal w
wiadomosci news:9g7n609gvea5m9gccte556r5ijnhsga0bi@4ax.com...
> In free.christians I read this message from "Uncle Davey"
> <noway@jose.com>:
>
> >
> >Uzytkownik "Matt Silberstein" <matts2nopam@ix netcom.nospamcom> napisal w
> >wiadomosci news:nklk60po4deaub970smin0fb1nke3ganpi@4ax.com...
> >> In free.christians I read this message from "Uncle Davey"
> >> <noway@jose.com>:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Uzytkownik "David Sienkiewicz" <david.sienkiewicz@attbi.com> napisal w
> >> >wiadomosci news:35fa3772.0403301215.21f554b6@posting.google.com...
> >> >> "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:<c4bcvb$82r$0@pita.alt.net>...
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> >> I'm always kind of amazed, however, when your own actions bring
> >> >> consequences, and then you people want to complain that others are
> >> >> picking on you.
> >> >
> >> >I'm sure a lot of Aryans used those words exactly to steel themselves
> >> >against the ones they were persecuting on Kristallnacht.
> >>
> >> This is grossly inappropriate, makes a lie of your comments that
> >> you had rid yourself of the hate you felt, and brings shame to
> >> your claims of being a Christian.
> >>
> >
> >It was probably too near the knuckle, and if so, then I'm very sorry, but
to
> >be frank the sort of dislike of evangelicals there is now could easily
> >escalate into the abuses that the Jewish people suffered before.
>
> Given that evangelicals have control of two of the three branches
> of the U.S. government and close to a working majority on the
> third I see that as a real stretch.
>
> >In the end
> >there are only two chosen people, the Jews and the True Church.
>
> Ah, so you are special people and get to claim whatever mantle
> you want for yourselves.
>
> > That's why
> >we can expect persecution, and I have been involved in the past with
> >organisations which looked into the persecution of evangelicals in the
> >Soviet Union. When you get into the details, the comparison is not so
unfair
> >as maybe it seems to you at first sight.
>
> The comparison, actually, was between David and the Nazis, not
> between evangelicals and the Jews.
>
> >I am not in any way degrading the sufferings of the Jews,
>
> Actually you are. You compare it to the possibility of some
> persecution of evangelicals. You see the potential of one as the
> same as the actual of another.
The fact that there are few evangelicals being tortured and imprisoned for
their faith right now is a respite. It was not the same for most of last
century. I was involved in some of the organisations which lobbied for the
believers in the Soviet Union, for example.
A Jew who was used as a guinea pig for Mengele's sadistic researches was in
a very analogous situation to someone like my coreligionists who had nerve
poisons of a military designation experimented on them.
http://www.sevastopol.org/Board/messages2000/4166.htm
I know this man, I toured the UK with him shortly after his release in 1988
and we toured about 12 churches up and down the country. I have several
tapes of him speaking with me as his translator, and in due course they're
going on my website.
Please be aware that your people did not have a monopoly of the suffering.
I would never let anybody deny the holocaust on you guys, please don't you
brush over our sufferings either.
Look at some of the recent, actual cases. These are not potential cases,
they are going on as we speak. I am only happy there is less than there was
fifteen years ago. Many times less, actually.
http://www.prayeralert.org/alertarchives/alert-031204.html
>
> > I am saying on the
> >contrary that we should be very careful in allowing any section of
society
> >to be considered fair game for hatred.
>
> I don't see David's hatred. I see a reasoned disagreement with
> explicit external aspects. He did not attack evangelicals, he did
> not attack some "intrinsic" qualities, he attacks the specific
> behavior of an individual. I doubt you object to that general
> notion and I doubt you will say it is not acceptable to attack
> evangelicals while it is ok to attack others (you may well
> believe that, but you won't say it).
>
> > Reading the newspapers I see articles
> >on us evangelicals which would raise an outcry if written about any other
> >group now.
>
> Provide some examples please.
The following was one example, and the next ones I see I'll save for you.
>
> > The Exile, an American run newspaper in Moscow, ran an article
> >suggesting fundamentalist Christians should be banned from flying in
> >airplanes, for example.
>
> I suspect the suggestion was that fundamentalist Christians are
> similar to other fundamentalists. They are winning the war in the
> U.S., so they don't have the need to asymmetrical methods
> (excepting for shooting doctors and setting a few bombs), but
> that says little of what they would do in a different situation.
This is a complete misunderstanding of what we are all about. I am not a
fundamentalist myself, actually, but I am a fairly entrenched protestant of
the reformed variety, and I come from Europe, where we are not winning
anything. France is the most atheist country, with barely any protestants in
it. The result? The most marked increase in antisemitic attacks, see this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,7369,1183414,00.html?79%3A+International+news+%2D+guardian
I don't mean to trouble you with this, but it's best for you to be informed.
Uncle Davey
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