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From: rogue719@hotmail.com (rogue)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: 12 Reasons Why Gay People Should Not Be Allowed To Marry
Date: 5 Mar 2004 11:44:35 -0800
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"Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote in message news:<c29us0$9v5$0@pita.alt.net>...
> > > > > Please see article 16 of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
> > > > >
> > > > > It talks of men and women of full age marrying:
> > > > > http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/lang/eng.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > It says nothing of homosexual unions and says that the family is the
> > > > > foundation of society.
> > > >
> > > > JERRY
> > > > It's not talking about that either. Here is the clause itself
> > > >
> > > > Article 16
> > > > Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race,
> > > > nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a
> > > > family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during
> > > > marriage and at its dissolution.
> > > > Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of
> > > > the intending spouses.
> > > > The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is
> > > > entitled to protection by society and the State.
> > > >
> > > > JERRY
> > > > This does not mean that ONLY men and women may marry. The UN does not
> > > > presume to make such statements for the member countries. This is a
> > > > proclamation of what the UN considers basic rights. The discussion
> > > > point being placed is not about same sex marriage or defining marriage
> > > > as only between a man and a woman. The purpose of this statement is
> > > > to point out that both men and women (since in some countries, women
> > > > can't make a decision like this for themselves) have the right to
> > > > marry if they are of age.
>
> > >DAVEY
> > > You're twisting the text to suit yourself.
> >
> > JERRY
> > No, actually that's the way I interpret it. After all, Denmark has
> > gay marriage and not only has it not "downgraded" the state of the
> > heterosexual family, but they didn't get drummed out of the UN either.
> > This document is a UN statement of basic rights. It is not designed
> > to be a legal document that says the UN won't recognize gay marriage.
> > The purpose of the document is to state the basic rights of all
> > people.
JERRY
I notice that you had no response to this point.
> >
> > > DAVEY
> > > It's ridiculous to assume that it meant that both men and women have the
> > > right to decide to marry or not marry.
> >
> > JERRY
> > Why is it ridiculous? Because it doesn't agree with your
> > interpretation? In some countries, women don't have the right legally
> > to make decisions. Those patriarchal (you can insert Muslim here, if
> > you wish) cultures don't want women to have any rights at all. You
> > can use the Taliban for a valid example.
>DAVEY
> Do they accept homosexual marriages?
> No?
> Well, they're not all bad then.
JERRY
Changing the subject to avoid the point noted.
>
> >
> >
> > > DAVEY
> > > It is obvious that single sexes cannot found a family, and that is what
> > > follows in the same breath.
> >
> > JERRY
> > But Davey, we have thousands of single sex families here in the
> > states. They just aren't codified as a legal marriage. It doesn't
> > mean it's not a legal family.
>DAVEY
> How many men do you know that have given birth to a child?
JERRY
Irrelevent. They have children that they have adopted or which they
have fathered with lesbian couples via artificial insemination.
Heterosexual sex is not necessary to have children.
> DAVEY
> How many women have gotten konocked up by a strap-on?
JERRY
Irrelevent. They have children that they have adopted or which they
have fathered with lesbian couples via artificial insemination.
Heterosexual sex is not necessary to have children.
>DAVEY
> Of course gay households are not families, Jerry.
> They are a mere travesty, if that.
JERRY
thank you for showing yourself to be the narrowminded homophobic ass
that we have all come to know and disrespect, Davey. ;-)
>
> >
> >
> > > DAVEY
> > > The UN is not about pervert-enabling, sorry and all that.
> >
> > JERRY
> > Who's a pervert, Davey? The American Psychiatric Association has
> > already stated that being gay is not a mental illness, or a mental
> > disorder, and who is harmed by it? Your bigotry is showing. It's
> > kind of ugly.
>DAVEY
> Gays are perverts.
JERRY
not at all. They just don't live their lives to your expectations.
It's a big world and they aren't hurting anyone. The only thing being
hurt here is your credibility every time you post.
>DAVEY
> I'm just being honest about that. What's ugly about honesty?
JERRY
Honest bigotry is still ugly, don't you agree?
>DAVEY
> They still can be forgiven, and loved.
JERRY
But only if they change to meet your standards of moral behavior,
correct? How very christian of you... ;-)
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