"Nunya" <yah@right.com> wrote in message
news:FtGUa.24814$zd4.5878@lakeread02...
>
> "Piorokrat" <piorokrat@autograf.pl> wrote in message
> news:bfqlhn$qb0$1@news.onet.pl...
> >
> > news:861Ua.29236$xn5.4727322@news0.telusplanet.net...
> > >
> > > "Michaela" <michaelamackenzie05072001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3271bf15.0307232222.6ed33bf1@posting.google.com...
> > > > http://www.petitiononline.com/stopgod/petition.html
> > >
> > > Hmmm .... this is a good starting point for a discussion esp. on
> > > alt.fan.uncle-davey, the newsgroup of which I am adding, to see
> > > if my uncle davey has some comments ......
> > >
> > > la n.
> > >
> >
> > What comes to mind is that God is the creator, he made us, and we did
not
> > make ourselves. He can do what he likes with us, and we are very much on
> the
> > receiving end. We cannot dictate to him.
>
> Actually even according to the bible that's a debatable point. :) In
> Genesis the actual word used to describe the diety who created the earth,
> heavens, people in their image, etc is "Elohim" which is plural, i.e.
Gods.
> It reads to me as describing an entire pantheon of dieties. Whereas if
you
> continue reading Genesis it changes to Yahweh, a singular name for "Lord".
> Meaning a single diety created Eden, Adam, and Eve. Cain even took a wife
> from another land, so where did she come from? (Answer: the Land of Nod,
the
> "Other People")
>
> So whenever someone tries to tell me that I'm somehow subject to their
God's
> will, I simply point out that I'm one of the "Other People". :) I have my
> own dieties.
>
> The last two sentences of yours I totally agree with. We cannot dictate
to
> diety, they do as they please with us.
>
> >
> > This petition is for God to 'stop making bad things happen', but this
> > presupposes that human beings have a higher morality than their own
> creator.
> > This is not a frame of mind to come to God in. If God sends plagues and
> > misery into this current world, then that is by definition not a bad
> thing,
> > but serves whatever purposes he is working out. And they are grand and
> > mysterious purposes beyond our understanding.
>
> But isn't that just an excuse? Why is there such a need for some xians to
> believe that their god is nothing but good and can do no evil? The bible
> itself is full of contradictions. Hell he even lied to Adam! Isn't it
> possible that God is not good and not evil? That he just is?
>
> >
> > The expression 'it's not funny any more' is also out of place. As
> creatures
> > of dust we are ill qualified to assess what counts as humorous in the
> courts
> > of eternity.
>
> Very very true.
>
> It's bad enough when you get priggish people who sit in
> > judgment on each others sense of humour and decide on behalf of the
world
> > what's funny and what isn't. All the more when someone tries to reign in
> the
> > sense of humour of the most high. Who made them the arbiter of what is
> funny
> > and what isn't?
> >
> > The definition of classical comedy in Greek drama is that things turn
out
> > well in the end. And we know that 'eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor
> > hath entered into the heart of man the things which God hath prepared
for
> > them that love him'.
> >
> > The definition of tragedy is that owing to some flaw in the character of
> the
> > hero, he comes to grief even though the answer was within his grasp.
> >
> > Throughout the world, the lives of people fall into one of these two
> > categories, comedy or tragedy, depending on what they do with the
Gospel,
> > the message of Christ, very God and very Man, who suffered and died on
the
> > cross for our sins, paying the punishment for these sins so that anyone
> > entering into a covenant with Him by repentance and faith can be saved
to
> > the uttermost, although they have no goodness in themselves.
>
> So even if someone has been nothing but evil all their lives, has
murdered,
> robbed, and raped...if on their deathbed they call to Christ and confess
> their sins they automatically get into Heaven?
>
> This is
> > available to everyone, and can be brought near to anyone by reading the
> > Bible and praying. For those who accept the gift of God, namely
salvation
> in
> > Christ, all's well that end's well. For those who turn away because they
> > reject God and want to know better than God what is right and what is
> wrong,
> > are like drowning men who reject the lifeboat that is sent for them
> because
> > they do not like the colour. Tragic it is, and not funny. But God's
fault
> it
> > most certainly is not.
>
> The last part is true. I have to find fault that we all need to be
"saved"
> though. Personally I plan on going to the Summerlands...
>
> >
> > For those who do accept Christ, God shall wipe every tear from their
eyes
> > and give them a glorious eternal inheritance, in the light of which the
> > worst of their earthly suffering shall be remembered no more than a
grown
> > man remembers the pain of cutting his first baby tooth.
>
> Now if he could just help me forget everything while I'm here I'd be
happy.
> :) But then again forgetting everything I've learned won't help much upon
> my reincarnation as a tree. :D
>
> -Shell
> **Not trying to be argumentative, I just love good theological debate.**
>
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Uncle Davey
> >
I love a good theological debate too, and that's why
I added Uncle Davey's fan group to the issue and why
I've put it on again.
I'm guessing, Shell, that your server doesn't carry
alt.fan.uncle-davey, as your response to him didn't
include alt.fan.uncle-davey.
Uncle Davey is an extremely intelligent individual who
can discourse on a number of topics, kind of like that
woman in the U.S. - "Von Savant" or somesuch, who
writes - or used to write - a column in a magazine
answering people's questions, or giving her perspective,
on a number of issues.
So, Uncle Davey, if you would like to respond to
"Nunya's" comments, I'm sure this poster would
be amenable to continuing this interesting discussion ... :)
la n.
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