Uncle Davey wrote:
> news:bqN0c.126115$hR.2409669@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>>
>>Uncle Davey wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article <c1shg3$cs1$0@pita.alt.net>, noway@jose.com [Uncle Davey]
>>>
>>>wrote...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article <c1q3ja$muf$0@pita.alt.net>, noway@jose.com [Uncle Davey]
>>>>>
>>>>>wrote...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>news:892cb437.0402271151.6f4f0c9d@posting.google.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>branchofjesse@hotmail.com (Jerzy Jakubowski) wrote in message
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>news:<b9b3de8.0402270454.ef64794@posting.google.com>...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>It's jolly funny that we can find eight toothed hoatzins from 150
>>>>>>>>>million years ago and not find eight Australopithecines from 1.5
>>>>>>>>>million years ago.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Uncle Davey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Come off it Davey! You know that this is a load of bollocks!
>>>>>>>>Since when did hoatzins have long bony tails? Not to mention the
>>>
>>>whole
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>suite of other features Archaeopteryx shares with dinosaurs, as well
>>>>>>>>as the suite of features it shares with modern birds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You can't use as an argument "I don't know therefore it isn't true".
>>>>>>>>Learn something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So is this fossil a bird or is it a reptile?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Both, of course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[Aves is now included within Reptilia, for that matter.]
>>>>>
>>>>>Since when, and on whose authority?
>>>>
>>>>I think the formal cladistic redefinition was made during the
>>>>1980s, by Gauthier, et al.
>>>>
>>>>It might have been better to drop the name "Reptilia" and use a
>>>>substitute like "Sauropsida"
>>>>
>>>>http://tolweb.org/tree?group=Amniota&contgroup=Terrestrial_vertebrates
>>>>
>>>>Say that their names follow
>>>>
>>>>Gauthier, J., A. G. Kluge, & T. Rowe. 1988b. Amniote phylogeny and
>>>>the importance of fossils. Cladistics 4: 105-209.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>That is just downgrading birds, that is.
>>>>
>>>>Not really, it's just placing birds in their correct context.
>>>>The content of the group hasn't changed, it's now properly recognized
>>>>as a sub-group of theropod Dinosauria. [Which is in turn within
>>>>Dinosauria, within Archosauria, within Diapsida, within Reptilia,
>>>>within Amniota, etc.]
>>>>
>>>>http://dinosauricon.com/taxa/avialae.html
>>>>http://dinosauricon.com/taxa/coelurosauria.html
>>>>http://dinosauricon.com/taxa/theropoda.html
>>>>http://dinosauricon.com/taxa/ornithodira.html
>>>>http://dinosauricon.com/taxa/archosauromorpha.html
>>>>http://dinosauricon.com/taxa/sauropsida.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>As compensation, I want Amphibia to join Pisces.
>>>>>Or at least, the caecilians should.
>>>>
>>>>Well, in a sense they already are. There is no longer a "Pisces" as
>>>>a recognized taxon. The closest equivalent clades would be groups
>>>>like "Vertebrata" or "Gnathostomata", both of which already do include
>>>>amphibians.
>>>>
>>>>http://dinosauricon.com/taxa/vertebrata.html
>>>>http://tolweb.org/tree?group=Sarcopterygii&contgroup=Gnathostomata
>>>>http://tolweb.org/tree?group=Gnathostomata&contgroup=Vertebrata
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Well I think it's a big nightmare.
>>>
>>>I liked the good old days, when you had
>>>
>>>Pisces,
>>>Amphibia,
>>>Reptilia,
>>>Aves and
>>>Mammalia.
>>>
>>>You knew were you stood then.
>>>
>>>Is there a picture of all these new fangled taxa anywhere?
>>>
>>
>>Try www.tolweb.org
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>If hoatzins don't have bony tails now, then that's not a big issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, it is. The presence of a short, fused pygostyle is one of the
>>>>>>identifying features of the modern bird clade. Hoatzins have
>>>>>>pygostyles like all other modern birds. Archy had a long reptilian
>>>>>>tail. It also had toothy jaws instead of a beak, long free clawed
>>>>>>fingers instead of fused wing digits, and various other features
>>>>>>more like other dinosaurs than like other birds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Within
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>cats and dogs, tail length differs greatly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why should you or anyone mistake Archeopteryx for a hoatzin? It's
>>>>>>no closer to hoatzins than to chickens or emus or Norwegian Blue
>>>>>>parrots.
>>>>>
>>>>>The plumage don't enter into it.
>>>>>This is a dead hoatzin.
>>>>
>>>>Well maybe only if all birds are "hoatzins".
>>>>
>>>>If you're serious about this hoatzin thing, which features of
>>>>Archy are the ones that specifically link it with hoatzins. Are
>>>>there any at all, other than the wing claws?
>>>
>>>
>>>The general shape of the bird looks like a hoatzin.
>>>
>>
>>Except for Archy having jaws with teeth, long fingers, a long bony tail
>>and feet adapted for running not grasping tree limbs.
>>
>>Here's a picture of a Hoatzin
>>http://www.mangoverde.com/birdsound/picpages/pic40-1-1.html
>
>
> That is a truly beautiful photograph.
>
>
>>and here is a page with several artist's renderings of Archy along with
>>a couple of photo's of the skeletons.
>>http://dinosauricon.com/genera/archaeopteryx.html
>>
>>Ken
>
>
> I think they should add that lovely photo to the artists impressions.
>
At this point I have to conclude you are being obstinate because you
find it amusing. I hope you and Lenny have fun flaming each other.
Ken
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