On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:21:21 +0000 (UTC),
Uncle Davey <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>
> news:slrnc2toja.18c.mightymartianca@namibia.tandem...
>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 02:55:39 +0000 (UTC),
>> Daniel Harper <daniel_harper@terralink.net> wrote:
>> > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:20:54 +0000, Uncle Davey wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> news:slrnc2st03.1io.mightymartianca@namibia.tandem...
>> >>> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:46:21 +0000 (UTC), Uncle Davey <noway@jose.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > news:slrnc2qofb.ck.mightymartianca@namibia.tandem...
>> >>> >> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 23:35:14 +0000 (UTC), Uncle Davey
>> >>> >> <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > news:slrnc2qjrg.ik.mightymartianca@namibia.tandem...
>> >>> >> >> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:09:56 +0000 (UTC), Uncle Davey
>> >>> >> >> <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > news:slrnc2qfnc.1k4.mightymartianca@namibia.tandem...
>> >>> >> >> >> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:40:11 +0000 (UTC), Uncle Davey
>> >>> >> >> >> <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> > news:slrnc2qcie.1ho.mightymartianca@namibia.tandem...
>> >>> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:48:16 +0000 (UTC), Dr. Jason
> Gastrich
>> >>> >> >> >> >> <news@jcsm.org> wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > Richard McBane wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> AC wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:03:34 +0000 (UTC), Dr. Jason
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> Gastrich <news@jcsm.org> wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> <snip>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>>> Good advice, Davey. It would be wise for the
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>>> questioner
>> >> to
>> >>> >> > first
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>>> repent of his/her sins and trust Christ for salvation
>> >> before
>> >>> >> >> > asking
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>>> Him this question. The first prayer God wants to hear
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>>> is
>> >> one
>> >>> > of
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>>> repentance and belief in Christ.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> You know, I don't find that in any technical manual I
>> >>> > possess.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> You just have to check the JCMS manual.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > Please check the Bible.
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> You mean it talks about computer maintenance in the Bible?
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Jason runs an online ministry
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> so he have to come up with a simple online method to
> save
>> >>> > folks
>> >>> >> > that
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> doesn't require any material stuff like water or laying
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> on
>> >> of
>> >>> >> > hands.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > No, my church and the churches I've attended don't
> require
>> >>> > water
>> >>> >> > or
>> >>> >> >> >> > laying
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > on of hands. These things aren't in the biblical
> doctrine
>> >> of
>> >>> >> >> > salvation.
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> Posting out of context quotations on websites isn't in the
>> >> Bible
>> >>> >> >> > either,
>> >>> >> >> >> > so
>> >>> >> >> >> >> why do you do that?
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Water would probably mess up the online salvation
>> >> electrons.
>> >>> > So
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> according to the JCMS manual "If you have decided to
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> trust,
>> >>> >> > believe
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> and accept Jesus Christ and you just prayed that prayer
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> (or
>> >>> > one
>> >>> >> > like
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> it) and truly meant it, then you are saved! Please
> email
>> >> me!"
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> See it's that easy according to:
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.jcsm.org/JCSM/thegospel.htm Emailing Jason
> is
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> probably the important part.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > I can't save anyone. Christ saves people. Further,
> they
>> >> don't
>> >>> >> > need
>> >>> >> >> > to
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > email me.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > Glad I could clarify. Hope you're ready to repent to
> your
>> >>> >> > Creator.
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> You first. Start by showing us some good works, like
>> >>> >> >> >> >> removing
>> >>> >> > Philip
>> >>> >> >> >> >> Johnson's out-of-context quotation list from your website.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> I
>> >>> > mean,
>> >>> >> >> > what
>> >>> >> >> >> >> kind of Christian would bear false witness?
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> > He's not. He's helping Philip Johnson bear a true one.
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> Johnson's quotes are deliberate distortions, taken out of
>> >>> >> >> >> context
>> >> to
>> >>> >> > make
>> >>> >> >> >> people seem to be saying one thing that, when context is
>> >> restored,
>> >>> > show
>> >>> >> >> > them
>> >>> >> >> >> saying something entirely different. If this isn't bearing
>> >>> >> >> >> false
>> >>> >> > witness,
>> >>> >> >> >> Davey, then what do you call it?
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> > Translating.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> Perhaps you would like to explain this one-word answer? How is
>> >> taking
>> >>> > a
>> >>> >> >> quote out of context to try to show someone saying one thing
> when
>> >>> > context
>> >>> >> >> clearly shows them saying something else translating? I'm
> really
>> >> quite
>> >>> >> > keen
>> >>> >> >> to see your apolo^H^H^H^H^Hexplanation for this one.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> > 'Kay.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > The story is told of a businessman who went to Russia, and he
>> >> gathered
>> >>> >> > together the management of the company his company had bought and
>> >>> >> > he
>> >>> > told
>> >>> >> > them all how better they were gonna be now that they had a
>> >>> >> > westerner
>> >> in
>> >>> >> > charge, and how he was gonna kick ass on anybody who didn't make
>> >>> >> > the
>> >>> > grade,
>> >>> >> > and generally a lot of things which would have made highly
>> >>> >> > improbable
>> >>> > that
>> >>> >> > he would ever witness the old copper-pipey suspended ceiling of
>> >>> >> > Sheremietievo airport on the way out of the country. He was
> greeted
>> >>> > warmly
>> >>> >> > by the crowd and they wished him well. Later he found out that
> the
>> >>> > reason he
>> >>> >> > was able to get a nice reaction and not get rybkinned was because
>> >>> >> > the translator had removed all the insults of the Russians and
> the
>> >> threats
>> >>> > and
>> >>> >> > put in pleasantries instead.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > He said "Alexey, you didn't translate what I said". To which the
>> >>> > translator
>> >>> >> > said. "No, I translated what you OUGHT to have said."
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Sometimes good translation is like that.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> So, in other words, Philip Johnson is changing the meaning of these
>> >> people
>> >>> >> have said by taking the quotes out of context. You just happen to
>> >> think
>> >>> >> that the new meaning is right.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Is your god so small and insignificant, so thoroughly meaningless
>> >>> >> that
>> >> he
>> >>> >> requires that Richard Dawkins and Charles Darwin be made to sound
>> >>> >> like
>> >>> > they
>> >>> >> don't accept evolution? Is this what Christianity is really about?
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> > No, but they will all acknowledge the truth sooner or later anyway.
>> >>>
>> >>> That's not the point. You are being evasive now. YOu know fully well
>> >> that
>> >>> Philip Johnson is a liar, and you know fully well that Jason is
>> >>> spreading lies. How do you live with yourself, knowing that on this
>> >>> very group you are making your religion look like a den of deceivers?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> I don't know anything about Philip Johnson, and I accept that Jason is
>> >> sincere.
>> >>
>> >> I see much more deceit on your side.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Example?
>>
>> He seems to think that my statement that a mined quote of Dawkins was the
>> first step in my long, arduous departure from my Christian roots. I can't
>> imagine why he thinks I am deceiving him, but I'll say that, for some odd
>> reason, it bothers me a great deal. I have no reason to lie to him, to
>> attempt to deceive him, and yet to be accused of this sort of deceit seems
>> to me to be horribly uncharitable. I don't know why he would think I
> would
>> lie to him about this. I have told this story before, long before I ever
>> heard of Uncle Davey.
>
> I'm sure you did, I'm sure you even believe it yourself.
>
> That doesn't stop it being a lie, though. At least, not by the standards
> you've applied to us.
The standards I apply to you is that when you are shown that you are
defending a deception that you stop defending it.
I was born into a Christian family and spent fifteen years of my life
believing it. I spent five years after that extricating myself, having
nightmares about God's judgement upon me, until finally I tossed the rubbish
completely. That you are so mean-spirited and offensive that you call my
struggle a lie only goes to indicate how very wrong you are.
--
Aaron Clausen
tao_of_cow/\alberni.net (replace /\ with @)
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