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From: AC <mightymartianca@yahoo.ca>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.uncle-davey
Subject: Re: Any Puter Experts That Can Help
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 02:56:11 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: The Tao of Cow
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 02:23:22 +0000 (UTC),
Uncle Davey <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>
> news:slrnc2tjks.1ak.mightymartianca@namibia.tandem...
>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:29:13 +0000 (UTC),
>> Uncle Davey <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > news:slrnc2stmj.170.mightymartianca@namibia.tandem...
>> >> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:02:49 +0000 (UTC),
>> >> Uncle Davey <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > news:hens209vg2g72vedir0cpcdeuauumfssak@4ax.com...
>> >> >> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:00:37 +0000 (UTC), "Uncle Davey"
>> >> >> <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >U?ytkownik "Mujin" <baka@hornedking.com> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
>> >> >> >news:bgfs20li5pnobgeaub6l0bfdpvt2fkuh2h@4ax.com...
>> >> >> >> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:41:14 +0000 (UTC), "Uncle Davey"
>> >> >> >> <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >U?ytkownik "Mujin" <baka@hornedking.com> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
>> >> >> >> >news:2ttq2099jts2u65hin31nbethpibnv30qv@4ax.com...
>> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:13:35 +0000 (UTC), Cheezits
>> >> >> >> >> <cheezits32@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >"Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >[etc.]
>> >> >> >> >> >> He said "Alexey, you didn't translate what I said". To
> which
>> > the
>> >> >> >> >> >> translator said. "No, I translated what you OUGHT to have
>> > said."
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> Sometimes good translation is like that.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >That is not good translation. That is lying.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> That's not any kind of translation, actually. It's the kind
> of
>> >> >> >> >> distortion that can lead to a professional association
> certified
>> >> >> >> >> translator suddenly becoming an uncertified translator, if you
>> > take
>> >> > my
>> >> >> >> >> meaning. Clients aren't paying for paraphrasing.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >In what country?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> In any country in which I have worked as a translator.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >You obviously haven't heard of 'dynamic equivalence'.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I certainly have - but paraphrasing isn't dynamic equivalence.
> In
>> >> >> >> your "parable" the intended message of the client was drastically
>> >> >> >> changed as a result of paraphrase. The point of dynamic
> equivalence
>> >> >> >> is to replace highly idiomatic or culturally specific (and
> therefore
>> >> >> >> poorly interchangeable) terms with terms which, while having
>> > different
>> >> >> >> literal meanings, carry roughly the same nuance. Thus, one would
>> > not
>> >> >> >> translate the Japanese term "kusojiji" as "stinky grandfather" in
>> >> >> >> English - although the literal meaning is obviously intended as
> an
>> >> >> >> insult, it doesn't have any particular meaning. "Old fart" would
> be
>> >> >> >> closer to the intended meaning - and of course would not be
>> > translated
>> >> >> >> as "furui he" in Japanese since it doesn't really mean anything
>> >> >> >> (although the intent is obvious).
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Naturally, dynamic equivalence can be applied to larger
>> > constructions
>> >> >> >> as well, but the intent of the original author should never be
>> >> >> >> changed. This is why interpreters often serve as cultural
>> > consultants
>> >> >> >> for their clients - cutting off inappropriate modes of
> communication
>> >> >> >> before they start. I have on more than one occasion advised
> clients
>> >> >> >> on the most culturally appropriate approach to a meeting, and of
>> >> >> >> course I always use dynamic equivalence to properly render the
>> >> >> >> client's idioms where I think it's appropriate.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> But actually changing the client's meaning? That would be a lie.
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> K
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >In this case, it involved the use of higher skills. Would you
> rather
>> > lie
>> >> > or
>> >> >> >be an accessory to murder?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I would rather stop interpreting and recommend to the client he
>> >> >> moderate his language as the terms he is using are likely to provoke
> a
>> >> >> violent reaction in his audience than violate my contract (and
>> >> >> possibly commit fraud depending on local laws) by presenting a
>> >> >> translation that is not true to both the literal meaning and intent
> of
>> >> >> the original.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But then I require clients to provide me with a precis of
>> >> >> presentations/speeches ahead of time, followed by a consultation on
>> >> >> appropriate modes of delivery for the audience. I don't personally
>> >> >> know a translator who doesn't follow this procedure for public
>> >> >> speaking engagements.
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> K
>> >> >
>> >> > This guy worked for the factory. What could he do?
>> >>
>> >> Since your little parable has nothing at all to do with the lies and
>> >> distortions produced by Philip Johnson or spread by Jason Gastrich,
> what
>> >> difference does it make?
>> >>
>> >> Well, I know. Christians like yourself fear the truth. You fear that
>> >> those foolish enough and small enough in self-worth that they actually
>> > look
>> >> up to you as some sort of spiritual guide will find out that evolution
> is
>> >> not anti-god, and that evolutionary researchers and theorists do in
> fact
>> >> accept what they write.
>> >>
>> >> In a way, I feel sorry for people like you, Jason and Johnson. You're
>> > world
>> >> view is dying, and I guess like the guy at the factory, rather than
> facing
>> >> reality, you will spread lies and distortions, because that's all that
> is
>> >> left to you. Science started leaving your type behind centuries ago,
> and
>> > I
>> >> figure there's not much more than a century or so left before the few
>> >> Biblical literalists are curiousities on the same order as the Amish.
>> >>
>> >> But make no mistake, Davey, you are producing apologetics for lies.
> The
>> >> early Christian martyrs didn't pretend to worship Roman gods so as not
> to
>> > be
>> >> executed. They had the convictions of their beliefs.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Aaron Clausen
>> >>
>> >> tao_of_cow/\alberni.net (replace /\ with @)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Since when was Amish a major force in US politics?
>>
>> Evasion noted. Don't you ever get tired of running?
>
> I just made a point which you evaded by saying 'evasion noted'.
>
> You then go on about morals and ethics and honesty, and all the time I'm
> wondering whether anyone can make an ironymeter tough enough to withstand
> the extreme conditions imposed by Mr Clausen.
Again you question my integrity. Do you have any reason to doubt my word?
And even if I were the biggest liar on this newsgroup, how would that make
Jason and Philip Johnson any less liars?
But why are trying to impune my character, Davey? When I have been
dishonest with you?
--
Aaron Clausen
tao_of_cow/\alberni.net (replace /\ with @)
|
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