On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:46:21 +0000 (UTC), "Uncle Davey"
<noway@jose.com> wrote:
>"Severian" <severian@chlamydia-is-not-a-flower.com> wrote in message
>news:f4o5105mejcq4gv3fuq83t03pel54a0g2f@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:54:12 +0000 (UTC), "Uncle Davey"
>> <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > >> And that this because the Tower would have been unacceptably tall?
>> >> >
>> >> >'reach the sky' is more than just a physical reaching.
>>
>> >> So it's not a literal meaning. Interesting dodge.
>>
>> >I said it was more than a physical meaning.
>>
>> >I didn't say the literal meaning was not part of the meaning, it usually
>is.
>>
>> So "literal" means whatever you want it to mean? "Reach the sky" means
>> "reach the sky" except when it doesn't.
>You tell me where the sky starts in your opinion, and I'll tell you whether
>it might have reached it or not.
The atmosphere begins at the surface of the earth. Sky is a broader
term, generally "what we see when we look up."
What did "day" mean before there was a sun and earth? The biblical use
in Genesis *has* to be a metaphor!
>> Well maybe, "On the third day" doesn't always literally mean "on the
>> third day," either. Your meaning of "literal" is a brush whose width
>> changes based on *your* prejudices.
>
>"Day" does have a literal temporal meaning, but "sky" doesn't have a literal
>physical meaning.
"Day" only obtains a "literal temporal" and physical meaning once the
sun shines on a rotating, extant earth.
>> >> >> How tall would the Tower of Babel have been if it had been
>completed?
>> >> >> (Note: I recommend you use the archaeological record to justify your
>> >> >> answer.)
>> >> >
>> >> >This is a mere irrelevance. Kindly posit a common ancestor of Indo
>> >European
>> >> >and Finno-Ugric.
>> >>
>> >> That's even more irrelevant. The evolution of language is unrelated,
>> >> except by analogy, to the theory of evolution.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Interesting dodge and how convenient.
>>
>> How convenient that I not conflate two different ideas from two
>> different areas of study?
>
>The area of study is how we got here.
>
>All other divisions are artificial. You can divide the school syllabus how
>you like.
1) Linguistics is the study of languages.
2) Biology is the study of living organisms.
The "Theory of Evolution" applies to #2. Because change is a factor in
many non-trivial pursuits, the word "evolution" is used in many
contexts.
3) When talking about the "evolution of language," people are *NOT*
talking about "how the biological theory of evolution pertains to
language." They are merely pointing out that there is an analogy
between them.
>> >In other words you agee that language could not have evolved.
>>
>> Of course language evolved -- evolution means change. My point was
>> that biological evolution is a fact, the "theory of evolution" is a
>> biological theory explaining evolution, and your attempt to discredit
>> it by positing that all languages didn't come from some proto-language
>> is simply an obfuscation. The _biological_ "theory of evolution" is
>> unrelated to, and independent of, the origin and change of language.
>These are the words of someone who is as good as admittiong there is no
>common ancestry between the language families, but isn't willing to concede
>to the biblical reason of why that is?
We can't explain it, so "God did it." What a useless way to look at
the world.
Biological evolutionary theory does not attempt to explain how
languages changed over time.
What possible difference does it make, w/r/t biological evolution,
whether there is a "common ancestry between the language families?"
I think you're presenting the Chewbacca defense.
>> >So how exactly do we get from monkeys to man, run that by me again?
>>
>> By breeding, mutating, living and dying, through millions of
>> generations.
>If that were so, we would not be speaking to each other now.
Huh? I cannot follow your uber-special logic skills, and fail to see
how your assertion follows from anything you or I have said before.
- Sev
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