On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 12:44:48 +0100, "Uncle Davey" <noway@jose.com>
wrote:
>
>Uzytkownik "Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> napisal w wiadomosci
>news:eh5auv4pfbcgahlpjhpkd1s35nvfmak8ro@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:39:50 GMT, "Dr. Jason Gastrich" <news@jcsm.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Constance Vigilant wrote:
>> >
>> >> I stated facts that you had covered the majority of the group with
>> >> Pastor Mello, and also in your discussions about not believing that
>> >> Christ was pre-existent and truly God, which I find erroneous for
>> >> reasons already explained, you stated that you had influenced his
>> >> theology a great deal.
>> >
>> >I agree with you, Constance. The trinity is a well developed doctrine
>and
>> >it was established even before the Nicene Creed.
>> >
>> >> My fear is that you will now attempt to use your foothold here to
>> >> dissuade young christians from believing the deity of Christ. This
>> >> would undo the work that other people here are doing. At the same
>> >> time a lot of what you write is very good, but "a little leaven
>> >> leaveneth the whole lump", so I am quite frankly afraid of the
>> >> influence you could have.
>> >
>> >Don't be afraid, Constance. And don't think that Bob has that much
>power.
>> >If a person reads what Bob says, swallows it whole, and avoids studying
>the
>> >issue diligently, then they will be held accountable for their decision.
>> >
>> >Bob doesn't have any foothold. He is one person who posts messages on
>> >usenet. Pray for his readership and consider that we all have a
>readership
>> >and an influence for God's kingdom. Glory to Him.
>> >
>> >You can't silence all heretics. It would be impossible. However, what
>you
>> >can do is this: speak the truth, clearly and repeatedly. This doesn't
>mean
>> >arguing with Bob until kingdom come. It simply means that people will
>read
>> >the truth coming from the people who know it and they will believe and
>> >understand it.
>> >
>> >It's more important to know the truth intimately and present it
>effectively
>> >than try and discredit or scream at heretics. I think it is important to
>> >confront someone who is promoting false beliefs, but it is also important
>to
>> >let that be a small part of your ministry and move on to other things.
>Bob
>> >may take this heresy to his grave and I'm sure God has greater things for
>us
>> >than spending months or years arguing for the trinity to him.
>> >
>> >Lastly, due to this heretical (and somewhat gnostic) belief, I don't
>think
>> >it would be appropriate for me to call Bob a brother in Christ or apply
>the
>> >scriptures about approaching sinful brothers. This belief puts him
>outside
>> >of orthodox Christianity. It's not a small matter. It's a huge matter.
>> >
>> >Biblical Christians affirm the Nicene Creed that was formulated at the
>> >council of Nicea. I'm studying this in my Christian philosophy course
>and
>> >recommend researching it. It applies to our situation and the trinity.
>> >
>> >God bless,
>> >Jason
>> >
>> Dear Jason:
>>
>> Please grow up and learn how to be honest. The pride of life that you
>> manifest will be your downfall if you don't repent.
>>
>> And by what authority do you add words and requirements to the Word of
>> God.
>>
>> Here is what God says:
>>
>> Rom 10:9 KJV
>> That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
>> believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou
>> shalt be saved.
>>
>> Rom 10:10 KJV
>> For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the
>> mouth confession is made unto salvation.
>>
>> Here is what Jason says:
>>
>> Rom 10:9 KJV
>> That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
>> believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou
>> shalt be saved [provided that you believe in the trinity] [provided
>> that Jason says you can be saved]
>>
>> Rom 10:10 KJV
>> For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the
>> mouth confession [of the trinity] is made unto salvation.
>>
>> God says that all men are liars and you have proven this to be true by
>> your words and deeds. Your word means nothing, was it yesterday you
>> apologized. Repent includes change. Where is the change of heart
>> and behavior Jason.
>>
>> Jason, you are destroying your reputation and your ministry by your
>> hatred and your dedication to the ways of Satan the accuser. You have
>> no respect for your elders, your are deceptive, and pretentious, and
>> in need of counseling. Seek counseling before you become of no effect
>> in the service to the body of Christ.
>>
>> At least learn what the word of God says before you spout off. You
>> said you don't consider me a brother in Christ. Too bad you are stuck
>> with me whether you like it or not. These verses are in the section
>> of the Word that talks about gifts and manifestations. I do not see
>> how you could possibly have been ordained by God and not even know the
>> most basic concepts of the Word. You do not know how to get people
>> saved because they have to be saved by your criteria and when a member
>> of the body does something you do not agree with you throw a tantrum
>> and say that person is not of the body. Read the Word of God Jason,
>> and learn it before you try to preach or teach it.
>>
>> You be the eye and I'll be the hand.
>>
>> 1Co 12:14 KJV
>> For the body is not one member, but many.
>>
>> 1Co 12:15 KJV
>> If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the
>> body; is it therefore not of the body?
>>
>> 1Co 12:16 KJV
>> And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the
>> body; is it therefore not of the body?
>>
>> 1Co 12:17 KJV
>> If the whole body [were] an eye, where [were] the hearing? If the
>> whole [were] hearing, where [were] the smelling?
>>
>> 1Co 12:18 KJV
>> But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it
>> hath pleased him.
>>
>> 1Co 12:19 KJV
>> And if they were all one member, where [were] the body?
>>
>> 1Co 12:20 KJV
>> But now [are they] many members, yet but one body.
>>
>> 1Co 12:21 KJV
>> And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor
>> again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
>>
>> 1Co 12:22 KJV
>> Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more
>> feeble, are necessary:
>>
>> 1Co 12:23 KJV
>> And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable,
>> upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts]
>> have more abundant comeliness.
>>
>> I refuse not to believe in you Jason. You can throw all the tantrums
>> and spew forth all the hatred you want, but eventually you will come
>> around and start doing things God's way because your way will not work
>> no matter how hard you try. You will fail and be humiliated over and
>> over and over again until you repent of your wrong behavior. There is
>> a good heart under that facade you present on the newsgroups, don't
>> let it harden.
>>
>> All that has been hurt is your pride. I got my pride hurt, too. But
>> so what. It wasn't the first time and will not be the last time. The
>> word says a just man does what?
>>
>> Pro 24:16 KJV
>> For a just [man] falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the
>> wicked shall fall into mischief.
>>
>> I dropped the whole thing the day after it started and I even stopped
>> talking about the trinity a discussion that started by someone saying
>> that a man must believe in the trinity to be saved. But your pride
>> won't allow you to leave it alone. I even wrote you an email and gave
>> you the opportunity to speak with me in private but you ran away from
>> the opportunity to work things out. Then tonight just so you could
>> show off you insert the requirement to believe in the trinity to be
>> saved just to start another arguments.
>>
>> You are not worth my time. You behave like an out of control spoiled
>> child. If you want to communicate with me, show everyone that you are
>> a man by denouncing your wrong behavior and announcing that you
>> repent. Otherwise, communicate with me via email where you will not
>> be able to show off to others - where it will be just you and I -
>> where we can say what needs to be said. Of, if you prefer email me
>> and I will give you my telephone number.
>>
>>
>> Continue to bite and devour; or walk in love. It's up to you.
>>
>> BB
>
>Bob, leaving aside the bit about how unloving we are that we normally hear
>from atheists, may I ask how you can reject the Nicene Creed but accept the
>canon of scripture which was selected by the same people using the Creed as
>a checklist?
>
>I think there is what we call in business a 'critical path problem' if you
>reject the Creed.
>
>Uncle Davey (I still love ya, Bob, even though I don't agree with ya.)
>
Dear Uncle Davey:
The Hebrew canon was already in place before the Nicene conference.
The four Gospels were foretold in the OT which preceded the Nicene
conference and Jesus said:
Joh 5:39 KJV
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and
they are they which testify of me.
Actually, like most people when I began reading the Bible it just
happened to be a KJV . Later I learned John 5:39 and that has become
my test of the scriptures. Really.
Uncle Davey, I do not worship men or the writings of men no matter who
they are. The Nicene Creed contains contradictions and therefore can
not be of God because God can not contradict Himself. The Nicene
Creed does not meet the standards of the following verses and is
therefore nothing more than the writings of men.
2Pe 1:20 KJV
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any
private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 KJV
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men
of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
Using your logic I would have to accept the writings of Ellen G White
or Joseph Smith as scripture, but I do not and can not and will not
because they do not match what the Word of God says. Each of us has
his "calling" and "purpose" in the body. Mine has always been the
adherence to the integrity of the Word of God. It has been the right
thing for me for many years. Men have disagreed with me before, but
for the most part have become my friends and brothers in service to
Christ.
I serve the Lord Jesus Christ as I understand Him to be. What I say
is what I believe unless I make a mistake. When I do, I admit it and
move on. A couple of days ago I posted an article on Temptation in
which I related the story of Eve's temptation. I am not trying to be
"hokey" but I believe what happened to Eve can happen to any Christian
and I am always on guard, always on gaur. I may not say anything when
I see posts that contradict the scripture, but note them and usually
post something to correct in another post under a different subject so
as not to embarrass anyone. But, when, someone adds a requirement to
salvation I say something because it is my job to do so. I would do
the same thing if someone posted something about God killing little
babies because He needed them in heaven or any other false doctrine
that attacks God, the Lord Jesus Christ or the Word of God that will
hurt people if they believe it and begin practicing it. That's my job
in the body.
Here is the Nicene Creed. You have been around long enough to be able
to compare what it says to what the Word of God says. If it don't fit
you must acquit.
The Nicene Creed
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
A critical path problem? Well I reject any doctrine or commandment of
man that is not in harmony with the Word of God. My critical path is
the Way - the path - who I try to understand and follow. Sometimes I
come to forks and don't know which was is right, but I look for the
foot prints in the Word and follow those. It has worked for me for
many years and there has been fruit, signs, wonders, and miracles to
confirm that it works. Who should I believe when I have doubts about
a doctrine?
BB
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