Uzytkownik "Bible Bob" <biblebob@saintly.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:eh5auv4pfbcgahlpjhpkd1s35nvfmak8ro@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:39:50 GMT, "Dr. Jason Gastrich" <news@jcsm.org>
> wrote:
>
> >Constance Vigilant wrote:
> >
> >> I stated facts that you had covered the majority of the group with
> >> Pastor Mello, and also in your discussions about not believing that
> >> Christ was pre-existent and truly God, which I find erroneous for
> >> reasons already explained, you stated that you had influenced his
> >> theology a great deal.
> >
> >I agree with you, Constance. The trinity is a well developed doctrine
and
> >it was established even before the Nicene Creed.
> >
> >> My fear is that you will now attempt to use your foothold here to
> >> dissuade young christians from believing the deity of Christ. This
> >> would undo the work that other people here are doing. At the same
> >> time a lot of what you write is very good, but "a little leaven
> >> leaveneth the whole lump", so I am quite frankly afraid of the
> >> influence you could have.
> >
> >Don't be afraid, Constance. And don't think that Bob has that much
power.
> >If a person reads what Bob says, swallows it whole, and avoids studying
the
> >issue diligently, then they will be held accountable for their decision.
> >
> >Bob doesn't have any foothold. He is one person who posts messages on
> >usenet. Pray for his readership and consider that we all have a
readership
> >and an influence for God's kingdom. Glory to Him.
> >
> >You can't silence all heretics. It would be impossible. However, what
you
> >can do is this: speak the truth, clearly and repeatedly. This doesn't
mean
> >arguing with Bob until kingdom come. It simply means that people will
read
> >the truth coming from the people who know it and they will believe and
> >understand it.
> >
> >It's more important to know the truth intimately and present it
effectively
> >than try and discredit or scream at heretics. I think it is important to
> >confront someone who is promoting false beliefs, but it is also important
to
> >let that be a small part of your ministry and move on to other things.
Bob
> >may take this heresy to his grave and I'm sure God has greater things for
us
> >than spending months or years arguing for the trinity to him.
> >
> >Lastly, due to this heretical (and somewhat gnostic) belief, I don't
think
> >it would be appropriate for me to call Bob a brother in Christ or apply
the
> >scriptures about approaching sinful brothers. This belief puts him
outside
> >of orthodox Christianity. It's not a small matter. It's a huge matter.
> >
> >Biblical Christians affirm the Nicene Creed that was formulated at the
> >council of Nicea. I'm studying this in my Christian philosophy course
and
> >recommend researching it. It applies to our situation and the trinity.
> >
> >God bless,
> >Jason
> >
> Dear Jason:
>
> Please grow up and learn how to be honest. The pride of life that you
> manifest will be your downfall if you don't repent.
>
> And by what authority do you add words and requirements to the Word of
> God.
>
> Here is what God says:
>
> Rom 10:9 KJV
> That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
> believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou
> shalt be saved.
>
> Rom 10:10 KJV
> For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the
> mouth confession is made unto salvation.
>
> Here is what Jason says:
>
> Rom 10:9 KJV
> That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
> believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou
> shalt be saved [provided that you believe in the trinity] [provided
> that Jason says you can be saved]
>
> Rom 10:10 KJV
> For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the
> mouth confession [of the trinity] is made unto salvation.
>
> God says that all men are liars and you have proven this to be true by
> your words and deeds. Your word means nothing, was it yesterday you
> apologized. Repent includes change. Where is the change of heart
> and behavior Jason.
>
> Jason, you are destroying your reputation and your ministry by your
> hatred and your dedication to the ways of Satan the accuser. You have
> no respect for your elders, your are deceptive, and pretentious, and
> in need of counseling. Seek counseling before you become of no effect
> in the service to the body of Christ.
>
> At least learn what the word of God says before you spout off. You
> said you don't consider me a brother in Christ. Too bad you are stuck
> with me whether you like it or not. These verses are in the section
> of the Word that talks about gifts and manifestations. I do not see
> how you could possibly have been ordained by God and not even know the
> most basic concepts of the Word. You do not know how to get people
> saved because they have to be saved by your criteria and when a member
> of the body does something you do not agree with you throw a tantrum
> and say that person is not of the body. Read the Word of God Jason,
> and learn it before you try to preach or teach it.
>
> You be the eye and I'll be the hand.
>
> 1Co 12:14 KJV
> For the body is not one member, but many.
>
> 1Co 12:15 KJV
> If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the
> body; is it therefore not of the body?
>
> 1Co 12:16 KJV
> And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the
> body; is it therefore not of the body?
>
> 1Co 12:17 KJV
> If the whole body [were] an eye, where [were] the hearing? If the
> whole [were] hearing, where [were] the smelling?
>
> 1Co 12:18 KJV
> But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it
> hath pleased him.
>
> 1Co 12:19 KJV
> And if they were all one member, where [were] the body?
>
> 1Co 12:20 KJV
> But now [are they] many members, yet but one body.
>
> 1Co 12:21 KJV
> And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor
> again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
>
> 1Co 12:22 KJV
> Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more
> feeble, are necessary:
>
> 1Co 12:23 KJV
> And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable,
> upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts]
> have more abundant comeliness.
>
> I refuse not to believe in you Jason. You can throw all the tantrums
> and spew forth all the hatred you want, but eventually you will come
> around and start doing things God's way because your way will not work
> no matter how hard you try. You will fail and be humiliated over and
> over and over again until you repent of your wrong behavior. There is
> a good heart under that facade you present on the newsgroups, don't
> let it harden.
>
> All that has been hurt is your pride. I got my pride hurt, too. But
> so what. It wasn't the first time and will not be the last time. The
> word says a just man does what?
>
> Pro 24:16 KJV
> For a just [man] falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the
> wicked shall fall into mischief.
>
> I dropped the whole thing the day after it started and I even stopped
> talking about the trinity a discussion that started by someone saying
> that a man must believe in the trinity to be saved. But your pride
> won't allow you to leave it alone. I even wrote you an email and gave
> you the opportunity to speak with me in private but you ran away from
> the opportunity to work things out. Then tonight just so you could
> show off you insert the requirement to believe in the trinity to be
> saved just to start another arguments.
>
> You are not worth my time. You behave like an out of control spoiled
> child. If you want to communicate with me, show everyone that you are
> a man by denouncing your wrong behavior and announcing that you
> repent. Otherwise, communicate with me via email where you will not
> be able to show off to others - where it will be just you and I -
> where we can say what needs to be said. Of, if you prefer email me
> and I will give you my telephone number.
>
>
> Continue to bite and devour; or walk in love. It's up to you.
>
> BB
Bob, leaving aside the bit about how unloving we are that we normally hear
from atheists, may I ask how you can reject the Nicene Creed but accept the
canon of scripture which was selected by the same people using the Creed as
a checklist?
I think there is what we call in business a 'critical path problem' if you
reject the Creed.
Uncle Davey (I still love ya, Bob, even though I don't agree with ya.)
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