On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:39:50 GMT, "Dr. Jason Gastrich" <news@jcsm.org>
wrote:
>Constance Vigilant wrote:
>
>> I stated facts that you had covered the majority of the group with
>> Pastor Mello, and also in your discussions about not believing that
>> Christ was pre-existent and truly God, which I find erroneous for
>> reasons already explained, you stated that you had influenced his
>> theology a great deal.
>
>I agree with you, Constance. The trinity is a well developed doctrine and
>it was established even before the Nicene Creed.
>
>> My fear is that you will now attempt to use your foothold here to
>> dissuade young christians from believing the deity of Christ. This
>> would undo the work that other people here are doing. At the same
>> time a lot of what you write is very good, but "a little leaven
>> leaveneth the whole lump", so I am quite frankly afraid of the
>> influence you could have.
>
>Don't be afraid, Constance. And don't think that Bob has that much power.
>If a person reads what Bob says, swallows it whole, and avoids studying the
>issue diligently, then they will be held accountable for their decision.
>
>Bob doesn't have any foothold. He is one person who posts messages on
>usenet. Pray for his readership and consider that we all have a readership
>and an influence for God's kingdom. Glory to Him.
>
>You can't silence all heretics. It would be impossible. However, what you
>can do is this: speak the truth, clearly and repeatedly. This doesn't mean
>arguing with Bob until kingdom come. It simply means that people will read
>the truth coming from the people who know it and they will believe and
>understand it.
>
>It's more important to know the truth intimately and present it effectively
>than try and discredit or scream at heretics. I think it is important to
>confront someone who is promoting false beliefs, but it is also important to
>let that be a small part of your ministry and move on to other things. Bob
>may take this heresy to his grave and I'm sure God has greater things for us
>than spending months or years arguing for the trinity to him.
>
>Lastly, due to this heretical (and somewhat gnostic) belief, I don't think
>it would be appropriate for me to call Bob a brother in Christ or apply the
>scriptures about approaching sinful brothers. This belief puts him outside
>of orthodox Christianity. It's not a small matter. It's a huge matter.
>
>Biblical Christians affirm the Nicene Creed that was formulated at the
>council of Nicea. I'm studying this in my Christian philosophy course and
>recommend researching it. It applies to our situation and the trinity.
>
>God bless,
>Jason
>
Dear Jason:
Please grow up and learn how to be honest. The pride of life that you
manifest will be your downfall if you don't repent.
And by what authority do you add words and requirements to the Word of
God.
Here is what God says:
Rom 10:9 KJV
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou
shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 KJV
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the
mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Here is what Jason says:
Rom 10:9 KJV
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou
shalt be saved [provided that you believe in the trinity] [provided
that Jason says you can be saved]
Rom 10:10 KJV
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the
mouth confession [of the trinity] is made unto salvation.
God says that all men are liars and you have proven this to be true by
your words and deeds. Your word means nothing, was it yesterday you
apologized. Repent includes change. Where is the change of heart
and behavior Jason.
Jason, you are destroying your reputation and your ministry by your
hatred and your dedication to the ways of Satan the accuser. You have
no respect for your elders, your are deceptive, and pretentious, and
in need of counseling. Seek counseling before you become of no effect
in the service to the body of Christ.
At least learn what the word of God says before you spout off. You
said you don't consider me a brother in Christ. Too bad you are stuck
with me whether you like it or not. These verses are in the section
of the Word that talks about gifts and manifestations. I do not see
how you could possibly have been ordained by God and not even know the
most basic concepts of the Word. You do not know how to get people
saved because they have to be saved by your criteria and when a member
of the body does something you do not agree with you throw a tantrum
and say that person is not of the body. Read the Word of God Jason,
and learn it before you try to preach or teach it.
You be the eye and I'll be the hand.
1Co 12:14 KJV
For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 KJV
If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the
body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 KJV
And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the
body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:17 KJV
If the whole body [were] an eye, where [were] the hearing? If the
whole [were] hearing, where [were] the smelling?
1Co 12:18 KJV
But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it
hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19 KJV
And if they were all one member, where [were] the body?
1Co 12:20 KJV
But now [are they] many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 KJV
And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor
again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 KJV
Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more
feeble, are necessary:
1Co 12:23 KJV
And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable,
upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts]
have more abundant comeliness.
I refuse not to believe in you Jason. You can throw all the tantrums
and spew forth all the hatred you want, but eventually you will come
around and start doing things God's way because your way will not work
no matter how hard you try. You will fail and be humiliated over and
over and over again until you repent of your wrong behavior. There is
a good heart under that facade you present on the newsgroups, don't
let it harden.
All that has been hurt is your pride. I got my pride hurt, too. But
so what. It wasn't the first time and will not be the last time. The
word says a just man does what?
Pro 24:16 KJV
For a just [man] falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the
wicked shall fall into mischief.
I dropped the whole thing the day after it started and I even stopped
talking about the trinity a discussion that started by someone saying
that a man must believe in the trinity to be saved. But your pride
won't allow you to leave it alone. I even wrote you an email and gave
you the opportunity to speak with me in private but you ran away from
the opportunity to work things out. Then tonight just so you could
show off you insert the requirement to believe in the trinity to be
saved just to start another arguments.
You are not worth my time. You behave like an out of control spoiled
child. If you want to communicate with me, show everyone that you are
a man by denouncing your wrong behavior and announcing that you
repent. Otherwise, communicate with me via email where you will not
be able to show off to others - where it will be just you and I -
where we can say what needs to be said. Of, if you prefer email me
and I will give you my telephone number.
Continue to bite and devour; or walk in love. It's up to you.
BB
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