On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:28:15 -0800 (PST), Kate_G <kate3457@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On Dec 26, 10:02 am, 4s00th <4s0...@hushmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 17:38:56 -0800 (PST), Kate_G <kate3...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Dec 25, 12:38 am, 4s00th <4s0...@hushmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:33:07 -0800 (PST), Kate_G <kate3...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >On Dec 24, 12:13 pm, 4s00th <4s0...@hushmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> I just tried to send you email, but it bounced.
>>
>> >> >> I miss you endlessly, but I hope you are safe and happy and having
>> >> >> fun. I hope you are also spending some time with John for the
>> >> >> holidays!
>>
>> >> >> Merry Christmas, kiddo; I love you so much! And remember, my heart is
>> >> >> always with you.
>>
>> >> >How pathetic!
>> >> >Luckily he either wised up enough to get away from you or his parents
>> >> >took his computer. Either way it's a great thing.
>>
>> >> >> Steve
>>
>> >> >Steve huh?
>>
>> >> >From The Wikisposure Project,
>>
>> >> >alt.support.boy-lovers, aka a.s.b-l, is a newsgroup e-mail list which
>> >> >was created by A. B. Jongen in mid 1995. The group was begun after
>> >> >Jongen polled members of pedophile web sites which cater to those who
>> >> >are attracted to male children, with the belief that a support system
>> >> >was needed for the group.
>>
>> >> >A successful venture for many years, the newsgroup provided a place
>> >> >for pedophiles to share stories about their experiences, ask and offer
>> >> >advice to their peers, obtain information through links and reading
>> >> >materials, and provided a place for discussion of issues as they
>> >> >relate to the group. Subscribers include members from around the
>> >> >world, however the site has, in recent years, become little more than
>> >> >a battle ground for a group of anti-pedophiles and the pedophile
>> >> >subscribers to the group who engage each other in a huge flame war.
>> >> >While some exchange of information and advice does still take place,
>> >> >it would appear that the group has lost it's focus on any goals
>> >> >originally in place.
>>
>> >> >Pedophile Activists:
>> >> >Secret Squirrel
>> >> >4s00th
>> >> >Laurence Taylor
>> >> >Brent Norman
>> >> >David Looser
>>
>> >> >http://www.wikisposure.com/Alt.support.boy-lovers
>>
>> >> >Brad, if you're out there, RUN as fast as you can!!
>>
>> >> You really ought to take the time to find out the situation before you
>> >> post and show your ignorance. It was idiots like you who told my
>> >> wayward one to kill himself, while I and others like me took the time
>> >> to explain things to him so that he could understand what he was
>> >> feeling, so that he could learn to deal with it without harming
>> >> himself or others.
>>
>> >> Further, it's a genuine shame that the so-called "Wikisposure Project"
>> >> didn't bother to note that both myself and Laurence Taylor have always
>> >> encouraged pedophiles to deal with their feelings without becoming
>> >> sexually involved with children. We offer support to help people live
>> >> with these feelings without becoming sexually involved with children.
>> >> I will not speak for the others, since they must have been active
>> >> during periods when I was not.
>>
>> >> And since my wayward one is now at least 19 and possibly 20,
>>
>> >You say "NOW"
>> >How old was he when you initiated contact and took advantage of his
>> >youth and innocence?
>>
>> Why don't you look it up -- most of my interactions with my wayward
>> one occurred HERE in a PUBLIC FORUM. I never met him in person. I
>> scolded him on several occasions for giving information that might
>> lead people -- including me -- to him. I told him many times that
>> despite what he might think of me based on what I post here or in our
>> email contact, that he couldn't possibly know if this was the real me
>> or if I was just someone playing a part to trick him.
>>
>> But, FTR, I do believe he was a senior in high school when I first
>> responded to one of his posts here at asb-l.
>>
>> > and given
>> >> the fact that he had not until recently even met his father,
>>
>> >I could easily ascertain that you are a piss poor substitute for a
>> >father figure.
>>
>> Do you think so? I have, in fact, been told by many boys that I was a
>> good "daddy" or that they wished I was their daddy. And do you have a
>> clue as to why? Because I put their needs before my own petty desires.
>> Some of them knew that I was sexually attracted to them, but they also
>> knew that they were in no danger from me, and that only made us
>> closer.
>>
>> >I
>> >> sincerely doubt that his "parents" have taken his computer away. As if
>> >> they had any idea what he could do on a computer long before he ever
>> >> turned 18!
>>
>> >You baby violaters always assume the parents are ignorant in parenting
>> >skills. Your first mistake.
>>
>> I always encouraged my wayward one to give his mother a break. It was
>> not I who said that she was always away with some boyfriend or other,
>> leaving him at home to fix whatever he could in the microwave and take
>> care of himself. In fact, I believe she actually just left him money
>> to purchase what he wanted from the grocery store. Now, I actually do
>> give her credit that she supported him well and made sure that he had
>> money for clothes and food and a computer and other material things.
>> And I also gave her the benefit of the doubt about having to work hard
>> to support a child as a single parent. But it was he who told me that
>> he rarely even saw her.
>>
>> Two years ago, she left him a note saying that she would be spending
>> Christmas elsewhere -- along with a credit card for him to take care
>> of himself and buy himself some presents. He actually used it to buy
>> presents for some friends and spent the holidays with a family who had
>> "adopted" him. That may have been the happiest I've ever seen him.
>>
>> > As if either took the time to try to find out! But, with
>> >> help from many of us, he now has much better relationships with both
>> >> parents
>>
>> >From "many of us"
>> >Are you saying you ganged the boy?
>>
>> You have such a dirty little mind. And I have to wonder what little
>> thoughts go around in that dirty little mind that you could come up
>> with such things to accuse others of doing.
>>
>> As I have said, I never met him in person. As far as I know, no one
>> else here ever met him in person. But there were several people who
>> grew to care about him and took the time to read his posts here and
>> give him feedback here. And we watched him as he figured it out and
>> grew up in a matter of weeks into the type of loving, compassionate
>> man of whom anyone would be proud.
>>
>> > -- he even went across the country to spend some time and get
>> >> to know his father.
>>
>> >> So if you want to stop child abuse -- then fine, I think you might be
>> >> helpful here to those of us who have been working to fight it for many
>> >> years now. But you really ought to take the time to find out what's
>> >> going on and who is who before you show your ignorance again.
>>
>> >Sir, you are a very sick individual.
>>
>> You came here accusing me of molesting children without bothering to
>> read anything I've ever written here -- and you have the nerve to call
>> me "sick?" The term is "prejudice," and it refers to people who have
>> preconceived notions and who do not bother to learn whether those
>> notions are accurate or not.
>>
>> >The wikisposure project has this
>> >group documented and your name is quite prominent in their archives.
>> >They see you as a pedophile activist. Now i guess your only recourse
>> >is to accuse them of orchestrating a coverup or perpetuating a lie?
>> >Are you "misunderstood" as most pedophiles claim?
>>
>> I guess you could say that I'm misunderstood -- by people who accuse
>> me of all kinds of things when they don't even know me.
>>
>> As far as me being a "pedophile activist," I guess there is some truth
>> in that statement seeing as I am a pedophile and I have worked in this
>> newsgroup for many, many years to help others and to fight the
>> media-driven bigotry and ignorance of people like yourself. But the
>> group implies that I am doing a bad thing -- something that I not only
>> do not do, but something that I would NEVER do.
>>
>> Under a few different nyms, I have posted here since 1997. Lawrence
>> Taylor was here before me, and, as far as I know, he's the only person
>> who's still around from that time. What I liked about Lawrence was
>> that he believes many of the same things I do, and together we have
>> tried to get our message out and to help others like us learn the
>> truth: adults have no business becoming sexually involved with
>> children.
>>
>> As a retired mental health worker and social worker, I have seen first
>> hand the kind of damage that can be done when adults become sexually
>> involved with children. It can be horribly devastating. It can destroy
>> a person's ability to trust and to develop healthy relationships for
>> the rest of their lives.
>>
>> Of course, we cannot predict which particular child is going to be
>> more affected, and studies clearly show that some actually remember
>> such relationships fondly as adults. So that means that it isn't
>> always harmful -- but the fact that it can be harmful means that it
>> isn't worth the risk. Any adult who claims to love a child is lying to
>> himself or herself if they become sexually involved with that child.
>> Any adult who truly loves a child would not be willing to take the
>> risk that their own selfish needs might harm that child.
>>
>> That has been my message here for over a decade. Well, I took a few
>> years off during the time that I was responsible for taking care of my
>> parents, but I have been here giving out that message for the better
>> part of a decade now. I have argued against pedophiles who claim that
>> it's okay to have sexual relationships with children reminding them
>> that there is no excuse for putting someone you care about at that
>> kind of risk for harm. Just as I have argued against bigots like you
>> who assume that the word "pedophile" means "child-molester." It does
>> not. It refers to someone who is sexually attracted to children
>> regardless of whether they act on such feelings or not. I choose not
>> to act on such feelings as I have no wish to harm anyone. And I have
>> encouraged others to make this same choice for over ten years. I
>> prefer celibacy to the possibility of harming others, and I have now
>> been celibate for about 13 years -- since my last relationship with an
>> adult broke up. And I can honestly say that I have not had any kind of
>> sex with a minor since I, myself, became an adult, spending most of
>> those years celibate as well.
>>
>> Furthermore, in the time that I have been here, I have done more than
>> just argue my position. I have gathered information on people who have
>> admitted to molesting children and provided that information to the
>> NCMEC. I have made reports to that same organization whenever I
>> thought that children were in danger. I do not know if anything became
>> of those reports, but those people do not post here any longer.
>>
>> So, while you might think you're doing something to stop child abuse
>> by coming here and accusing people of molesting children and yelling
>> at them, I've actually been working to help people so that they do not
>> become child-molesters or to stop it if they already have. I've
>> actually taken action to stop people who are threats to children. So,
>> go ahead and yell all you want, little bigot. But keep in mind that
>> some of the people you're yelling at have already done more to stop
>> the sexual abuse of children than you'll ever do.
>>
>> > Most Active Subscribers:
>>
>> >Pedophile Activists:
>> >Secret Squirrel
>> >4s00th
>> >Laurence Taylor
>> >Brent Norman
>> >David Looser
>>
>> These lists infer that all of these people support sexual
>> relationships between adults and children, but that is not the truth.
>> Some of them do, some of them support pedophiles learning to live with
>> their feelings without touching a child.
>>
>> >Anti-Pedophile Activists:
>> >bob&carole/bobandcarole
>> >James Riske
>> >Ralph
>>
>> This list makes these people seem like something noble,
>
>They ARE noble in that they spend their free time keeping the children
>safe from people like yourself.
>
>
>but all
>> they've ever done is come here and yell at people, making preposterous
>> accusations about people whom they do not know, have never met and
>> cannot possibly know if they've ever done the things they claim.
>
>Because of those entities and others like them, many child pornography
>groups and websites have neen removed from usenet.
I guess you believe everything you read. That's pure and unadulterated
bullshit. Sure, they reported a few groups on Yahoo Groups! Big deal
-- those idiots were asking to be shut down by trying to post illegal
shit in a public forum. Funny thing is, there were no arrests from all
that, was there? In fact, all they did is teach people a lesson on how
to be more careful. Hu-fucking-rah! But they did absolutely NOTHING to
any group on Usenet. Recently some law enforcement agencies have
gotten some Usenet providers to voluntarily drop some of the groups
that they claim were used to transfer child pornography -- but the
people named above had absolutely NOTHING to do with that.
And those others like them that you mention? Yes, some of them did
stop the transfer of child pornography -- but they did not do it like
the people named above. They actually did something other than hanging
around a newsgroup shouting dirty names and making false accusations
against others. And even then, some of them went over the line.
Perverted Justice likes to brag about some of the sites they "brought
down." Some of them deserved it -- but many of them did not. Many of
those sites contained no illegal content -- just content that
Perverted Justice didn't like, so they deliberately painted them as
child pornographers so that they could interfere with the right of
free speech on the Internet. But, at least they did more than those
idiots above whom you so idolize for nothing.
>> They've come here as bigots and haters;
>
>Uhhh, most of the civilized world are 'haters' are you choose to refer
>to them. If hating pedophiles and child abuse is 'bigotry', count me
>in.
I hate child abuse -- and I'm willing to bet that I hate it a whole
lot more than you do. But the bigotry comes in when you assume that
people are child-molesters, when you assume that all pedophiles are
child-molesters when many, like me, choose not to touch a child.
Pedophiles are people who are sexually attracted to children the same
way that heterosexuals are people who are attracted to persons of the
opposite sex -- the words describe their feelings, not their actions.
And just as many heterosexuals would never dream of using an advantage
to molest others, many pedophiles would never choose to molest a
child. People can and ought to control their actions.
>people who assume that
>> pedophiles cannot stop themselves from molesting children. And the
>> most they've done is yell a few insults. Tah-rah-fucking-boom-ba!
>>
>> >http://www.wikisposure.com/Alt.support.boy-lovers
>>
>> I, on the other hand, have clearly stated that people always have
>> choices, that they can and must be responsible for their own behavior.
>> There can be no excuse for doing something that you know might harm a
>> child, and anyone who says there is just lying to themselves.
>>
>> You bigots come in here and automatically hate people because they are
>> sexually attracted to kids.
>
>Well yeah you creep!
>Thousands of lives are ruined by your kind and you expect politeness
>and love?
I never asked you for anything. But it would make sense that if you
want to stop child abuse -- AS YOU CLAIM -- you might take the time to
find out who is out there doing it rather than attack those of us who
have given much of our lives to prevent it.
And while we're on the subject, how many lives have been ruined by
YOUR KIND? Blind bigots who assume things about other people based on
words they don't even understand? And yet, I've been much more kind
and polite to you hoping that you have the intelligence to open your
mind and learn the truth beyond what you have been told to believe.
Before you hate someone, you really ought to find out if they are what
you think they are. You hate people who molest children -- but
probably not as much as I do or else you'd have found a way to
actually help rather than just throwing your words out into the wind.
>Well, let me make this clear: no one asked
>> for these feelings, no one chose to have these feelings -- we all
>> discovered them.
>
>Tough. Rapists and serial killers claim to be born that way also but
>they are killed or incarcerated to protect the public.
Not if they never commit rape or murder they are not. And that's the
point -- you never bothered to find out if I ever harmed anyone, did
you? You made some assumptions based on your bigoted beliefs and you
were so terribly wrong.
The truth about my wayward one is that he was a teenager who was
attracted to younger boys. He had all kinds of fantasies about having
sex with these boys he worked with as a junior coach on a soccer team.
And before he started listening to me, he was practically stalking one
particular boy and his family. He was going to end up in jail or in a
mental hospital -- and I could only hope that they would get to him
BEFORE he harmed that particular boy. But he listened to me, he put
his hormones on hold and actually started seeing what was truly around
him. He actually figured out that what he was feeling was not love as
he had thought, but horniness. And, with my help, and with the help of
others here who cared enough to talk with him, he learned all of this
BEFORE he hurt anyone.
And all of that happened here -- in public messages that we wrote that
are still available in Usenet archives. If you had bothered to do your
homework, you would have known all of that -- but you just jumped in
with your bigotry and assumptions and made a right ass of yourself.
So you can yell at me all you want, but what I did was actually
prevent a young man from becoming a child molester. By working with
this smart and wonderful kid, I helped prevent the molestation of any
number of children, because who knows how many kids he might have
molested before he was caught and stopped? Do you think you and your
words of hate could ever do something that good? No. You only piss
people off. You only make people feel like they might as well be doing
what you're accusing them of doing if people like you are going to
think that's what they're doing anyway! You just waste bandwidth to
spread hatred. I help people learn to control themselves.
Put your bigoted notions aside and look at this like an intelligent
person: what's better -- yelling names at people or helping them learn
how to live with their feelings without harming anyone? What's better,
pissing people off with your hatred or actually working to prevent
child abuse?
Yes, thousands of lives are ruined each year by adults who are too
selfish to think of the harm they can cause to child just so they can
get their rocks off. But not all pedophiles choose to do that -- many
of them choose to control themselves, and many more can learn to do so
if they can get the help they need to do it. My goal is to make that
help available to them. My goal is to prevent child abuse BEFORE it
happens.
So, tell me, what's your goal? What brought you to this group?
-- 4s00th@hushmail.com
If you send email, I will reply to it here at asbl
(without showing your email addy)
unless you ask me not to.
|
|