On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:10:09 -0800, Brandon D Cartwright wrote
(in article <ugs5i4lf29jgicdbuqjpnpl3vm4131nbfa@4ax.com>):
> On 18 Nov 2008 10:36:08 -0600, Morpheus <Morpheus@dreamland.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:10:36 -0800, Brandon D Cartwright wrote
>> (in article <qct4i4hslkcmcklbair2po2knfi3rjtg7v@4ax.com>):
>>
>>> On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 03:10:53 -0800 (PST), danielleeds69
>>> <danielleeds69@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
><<<<<<<<<
SNIPPED
>>>
>>
>> My two cents worth: This is bad advice.
>>
>>
>> If I were going to seek out the help of some sort of therapist or
>> counselor,
>> I would not (REPEAT NOT) discusss "...YOUR feelings..." In most venues the
>> therapist is required by law to report the client and most therapists
>> happily
>> do so, even when there has been no criminal activity.
>
> That's why I said one he trusted..
It is not a matter of trust. It is the law. There is no privilege between
therapist and client and if subpoenaed the therapist must testify or be held
in contempt. Only lawyer/client privilege is protected.
>
> The OP claimed his nine year old niece was coming on to him and said
> he was disturbed by his reactions..
Noted.
>
>
>>
>> Worse yet, most skilled therapists can elicit a report of molestation from
>> a
>> young child. It is not the difficult to plant ideas and particularly when
>> you tell the person, "...you may not remember this, but that doesn't mean
>> it
>> didn't happen..."
>
> False Memory Syndrome is pretty well documented now and only a lousy
> therapist or one with some hidden agenda would do that...
>
> The therapy needed is for him not the child..
I can assure you that the psychiatric/psychological/psychotherapy/casework
business is full the the brim with "lousy therapists" many of whom have their
own issues and their own agendas.
>
>
>> Indeed people who are molested, raped or attacked often do
>> supress their memory of the event...read PTSD literature if you question
>> that.
>
> sure...
>
>>
>> Tread carefully here in substance abuse programs as well.
>
> That's why I have doubts of the utility of his "recovery program" for
> his particular problems...well meaning alcoholics have experience in
> being drunks but I doubt their ability to help pedophiles deal with
> their urges..
I agree.
>
>
>
>>
>> Do not confess to so-called 'black-out' drinking (or drugging). It is a
>> deadly combination. The "victim" doesn't remember what happened because
>> he/she is 'burying it' and the perpetrator doesn't remember because he/she
>> has "black out" intoxication...who's to say what, if anything, happened?
>
> I actually believe nothing happened in this case and to break contact
> before it did was a huge step for him..
Agreed, My warnings were broader than only this case.
>
>
>>
>> The therapist or NCMEC are always happy to fill in the blanks.
>>
>> Perhaps some folks can suggest ways around this. Anonymous therapy might
>> be
>> one. I don't know how that would work.
>
> Speaking from an anti-pedophile position I have to admit you make some
> good points...
>
> Where does a pedophile wishing help before he gives in to his urges to
> assault a child go?
>
> Perhaps that explains the irony of this character posting for advice
> in a pedophile group as to what to do about his relationship with his
> niece..
It is useful to be clear about definitions. Pedophile means pre-pubescent
children. NCMEC and other interest groups (many of which have their own
agenda) have broadened this to mean anyone under 18, but, as in the case at
hand (9 yr old), pedophilia involves children.
I raise this point because I think two different phenomena are involved.
Pursuing children for sex is, in my view, quite different than having sex
with a kid who is sexually aware and most likely sexually active...say, 13 or
14.
I don't know that someone who finds a 14 year old boy or girl sexually
attractive needs "help". He may need help with impulse control, but girls
and boys of that age marry in many societies (including this one at one time)
and no one looks askance. A hot 15 year old boy with a six-pack strolling
shirtless down the beach turns a lot of heads as does a sweet young thing of
15 in a bikini.
Children are a different matter and those who have sex with them are more in
need of "help". Two reasons here. First there feelings are more abnormal
(not the norm) and second the risk to the sexual partner is greater, the
younger he or she is. You appropritely ask, where can they find this help?
The irony is, as you point out, that groups such as these may provide a forum
to express and think about those feelings and impulses. Also I think that
the images available here can feed fantasies and that fantasies are often a
substitute for action.
I am not a subscriber to the idea that porno leads to molestation. The
research that is purported to support this view is virtually worthless from a
scientific point of view...it is all retrospective and conducted mostly on
incarcerated men who have every reason to lie and may (in many cases) be
deeply disturbed. Not a cross section of the group of interest by any means.
The research (if it can even be called that) has no generalizability nor
does it have any predictive value.
Even if a "trusted" therapist could be found who would defy the law, it is
doubtful that there is any known 'treatment' for this situation. Thinking of
it as a disease that can be treated is probably not even the best way to
think about it.
If an individual is troubled by his feelings (as in this case), Cognitive
therapy may be of some use. There are self-help books on cognitive therapy.
One is:
Talking To Yourself: How Cognitive Behavior Therapy Can Change Your Life. by
Pamel Butler.
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