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From: Brandon D Cartwright <user@example.net>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.prettyboy
Subject: Re: Indiana Father Kills Sex Offender Who Broke Into Home
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:10:09 -0800
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On 18 Nov 2008 10:36:08 -0600, Morpheus <Morpheus@dreamland.com>
wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:10:36 -0800, Brandon D Cartwright wrote
>(in article <qct4i4hslkcmcklbair2po2knfi3rjtg7v@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 03:10:53 -0800 (PST), danielleeds69
>> <danielleeds69@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> He said his daughter went to church Sunday after the incident.
>>>
>>> What's that have to do with the incident?
>>>
>>>> that man was a rapist, pure and simple, the girl was not a child.
>>>>
>>> Good point, Wonderer, and furthermore, she was neither missing, nor
>>> exploited (I am referring to the website Cartwright provided).
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.ncmec.org/missingkids/servlet/NewsEventServlet?LanguageCou...
>>>>
>>>>> There are those who maintain that there is a distinction between viewing
>>>>> child pornography and molesting a child.
>>>
>>> Because there is a distinction.
>>> The molester may or may not film the act (participate in child
>>> pornography), but does not necessarily and simultaneously view child
>>> pornography. It is a well-known fact that possessors/viewers of
>>> various forms of pornography do not necessarily commit criminal acts.
>>> the same applies to owners of firearms or explosives. I once used to
>>> make frictional impact explosives (of potassium perchlorate and
>>> amaphorous red phosphorous), but it does not mean that I had the
>>> intent to murder people by such means; it was just fun!
>>>
>>>>> This is another fallacy. Viewing these images is often the first step in
>>>>> the timeline that eventually leads to the sexual victimization of a child.
>>>
>>> An unqualified and unfounded statement. Does this "timeline" parallel
>>> perchance that of experimentation with marijuana leading to the
>>> inevitable use of heroin? I would suggest at least substituting
>>> "often" for "sometimes".
>>>
>>>>> Dr. Andres Hernandez, Director of the Sex Offender Treatment Program at
>>>>> the Federal Correctional Institution at Butner, North Carolina, has
>>>>> treated several hundred inmates who were convicted of child pornography
>>>>> crimes. He conducted a study which found that 85% of child pornography
>>>>> offenders had, in fact, committed contact sexual crimes which were
>>>>> unknown to law enforcement.
>>>
>>> Does anybody smell job security wages? What would happen to the
>>> American Cancer Society if a cure were discovered? What is the
>>> definition of "sexual crime"? Does it necessitate crimes against
>>> children? Read the above again! More closely!
>>> They may, regardless of age, include (but not be limited to): incest,
>>> indecent exposure, prostitution or solicitation, rape, (sexual)
>>> harassment, stalking, inappropriate advances (a vast grey area), and
>>> in some places, sodomy or oral sex. Did the aforementioned offenders
>>> also possess other (non-child) pornography? Though "contact" has here
>>> been specified, Keep in mind that various factors which can make you
>>> an accessory to any of the above (even witness to) can by law make you
>>> "guilty of a sexual crime." (have readers not already inferred that
>>> the British and Americans are highly sexually inhibited,or even
>>> squeamish?)
>>>
>>>>> Dr. Hernandez asserts, that, while there needs to be further study, his
>>>>> observations indicate that "[child pornography] offenders are far more
>>>>> dangerous to society >>than we previously thought."
>>>
>>> Note: whilst making an unqualified, vague statement, admits that
>>> "there needs to be further study." However, the title "Doctor" =
>>> "unquestioned authority". Damn! I knew I should have got a doctorate
>>> in something!
>>>
>>>>> This is supported by another study, published in the Journal of Abnormal
>>>>> Psychology, which suggests that child pornography offending is a stronger
>>>>> diagnostic indicator of pedophilia than is sexually offending against
>>>>> child victims.
>>>
>>> Note: "suggests" is a term to be taken seriously . . . at face value,
>>> and no more! Many "suggestions" have been made by numerous agencies
>>> from various fields, many of which have been later proven unfounded as
>>> facts, yet acceptable as mere "suggestions". As a reference: Look at
>>> the plethora of unproven "suggestions" over decades, made by medical
>>> professionals and pharmaceutical agencies regarding use of supplements
>>> and marijuana. How many of those "suggestions" are facts?
>>>
>>> Has anybody here actually met a doctor of abnormal psychology? Very
>>> creepy people indeed!
>>>
>>>>> It is also known that images of child pornography are used in the
>>>>> victimization of children to desensitize them to sexual exploitation.
>>>>> They are key to the
>>>>> grooming process used by offenders to break down a child's natural
>>>>> inhibitions and defense mechanisms.
>>>
>>> The above -without the implicit absolutes- may certainly be true, and
>>> in many cases, is. It is likewise often used upon adults of either
>>> gender, by either gender. Such an attempt was made upon me by persons
>>> of both genders, most after I turned 18. Furthermore, note "a child's
>>> natural inhibitions and defense mechanisms." May it therefore be
>>> inferred that a "child" is not such an idiot as we would presume? That
>>> a child has an intuitive sense of another's intent to do harm or good?
>>>
>>>>> Let me close by reminding you what the Supreme Court held in the Ferber
>>>>> case: "The value of permitting live performances and photographic
>>>>> reproductions of children engaged in lewd sexual conduct is exceedingly
>>>>> modest, if not de minimus."
>>>>
>>>>> The value of our children is not de minimus. They deserve the best
>>>>> protection our laws can provide.
>>>
>>> Atwell-Davis here reminds the Senate of a Supreme Court ruling that is
>>> countermand to her agenda! Why would she do that? Her reminder is
>>> sadly followed by a whimpering statement. I mean to say that it was
>>> not a very convincing closure, furthermore, she compares apples
>>> (permission of the aforementioned) to oranges (the value of children
>>> themselves). Question: Is the value of children higher than that of
>>> women? Of men? Of Asians? Of Muslims? Are not all people equal?
>>>
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> You are welcome.
>>>
>>> Allow me to emphasise here that I do not by any means condone (i.e. am
>>> opposed to) crimes against and/or abuse of children and other people,
>>> including elderly, handicapped (physically, mentally or emotionally)
>>> and infirm or otherwise incapacitated individuals! I am in fact highly
>>> sensitive to such abuses, having been personally involved (rather the
>>> instigator thereof) in the rescue of a victim of incestuous sexual
>>> abuse, only to see the victim unfortunately later recant in the court
>>> of law, and, of course only to return to the same situation. It not
>>> only infuriated me, but haunted me for years. The perpetrator remains
>>> alive and well, and guilt-free (please see Hare's psychopathy check-
>>> list, available via Wikipedia.).
>>> Furthermore, I have spoken with a released "sexual offender" who
>>> became such immediately after his 18th birthday, and who, unlike the
>>> actual rapist in the incident, had no physical contact with the
>>> victim, and even talked the inebriated rapist out of murdering the
>>> victim, who was later persuaded by the prosecuting attorney to change
>>> her statement against him anyway, despite having saved her. Because he
>>> cooperated with the other guy in order to save her life, he became an
>>> accessory, and therefore himself a "rapist", with the permanence of a
>>> tattoo. He has sworn a personal oath never to interfere in anther
>>> crime, including impending murder, because that victim turned against
>>> him. Very sad. Yes, people lie, but I am familiar with this person's
>>> integrity, family, actual history, the police reports, court case, and
>>> so forth. This ex-convict, being a "rapist" as such, had therefore
>>> been confined with "others of his kind", hence had the opportunity to
>>> make the acquaintance of many sexual offenders. Though many of them
>>> had committed crimes against children (one even murdered his victim
>>> and had no remorse), not one was an actual "paedophile". (i.e. one
>>> who cares for children) Yes, Mr. Cartwright, I have been doing some
>>> research and investigation, and these interviews have proved to be
>>> quite fruitful. In every case -albeit only of which my interviewee was
>>> aware- the age of the victim was not so much of a concern as was the
>>> accessibility to and the vulnerability of the victim! Very
>>> interesting, that one hears scant -if any- news regarding sexual
>>> predation at nursing homes and such, despite its prevalence! Hmm. . .
>>>
>>> Additionally, as with various other "sexual deviations, such as S&M,
>>> bondage, and such, fantasy does not necessarily lead to acting out
>>> said fantasies (read about Anne Rice). Much documentation attesting to
>>> this may quite easily be obtained by the public . . .so far. I have
>>> likewise done considerable research, insomuch as to question owners of
>>> some child pornography throughout Eastern and Western Europe -some of
>>> it incidental, i.e. acquired unintentionally; several possessors
>>> thereof have "normal sexual relationships", and not one, to the best
>>> of my knowledge, has engaged in the sexual abuse of a child.
>>>
>>> Before making my closing statement, I would like to make a point as
>>> regards the "innocence" of a child; many of us have, especially as
>>> children fallen for the "knee/kick-to-the-groin" manoeuvre, my point
>>> being that not all children are so "innocent" as the title to which
>>> they so readily adhere, and everything must be taken into context. I
>>> have been subjected throughout my life to "unlikely" (impossible)
>>> advances by "innocent children", and I assure you that they knew full
>>> well what they were doing! Does this mean that one necessarily has
>>> license to proceed further? Obviously not; however this does -at least
>>> for myself- confirm without a shadow of a doubt that child sexuality
>>> does exist to some extent, whether or not we choose to recognise its
>>> presence. Please bear with me, as I clarify further that I have NEVER
>>> made advances upon a female regardless of age, but have been (in past)
>>> subject to advances even by young girls.This is neither contrived, nor
>>> 'fantasy"! It just happened, and of their own volition. I have never
>>> been attracted to children in that way, so why would an 8-year old
>>> girl suddenly get the idea to kiss a 22-year-old guy? To this day I
>>> have no idea, but I can only say that it was absolutely unsolicited,
>>> and I was weirded out. But again, my simple posit is that children
>>> experience sexuality at various stages in life, irrelevant to
>>> chronological age.
>>>
>>> As for Mr. Cartwright: I foolishly followed his advice, thus
>>> alienating myself from someone most dear to me. This resulted in her
>>> resentment towards me, low marks in school, delinquency, truancy, and
>>> spending evenings with an older boyfriend, whom her mother doesn't
>>> know.
>>
>> Quit stalking her if you have a grain of sense left...
>>
>> You are wildly overestimating your influence to make you feel better..
>>
>>
>>> Her mother in fact has never even met his parents! PLEASE do not
>>> follow any advice from Mr. Cartwright! Doing so led me to months of
>>> depression and later alcoholism, and I am currently in recovery
>>> therapy.Meanwhile, as a result of following his advice, there is
>>> someone special who feels abandoned because of my foolish error. God
>>> help her! I shall never forget her pained and sorrowful expression,as
>>> her mother carted her off n the back of the truck, and I refused to
>>> return her "goodbye" and "I love you". One of the greatest mistakes I
>>> had ever made was to heed the advice of Mr. Cartwright and relinquish
>>> the girl back to her abusive mother!
>>
>> Well look at it this way...you *didn't* have sex with your nine year
>> old niece and haven't been sentenced to twenty-five years in prison
>> for doing so..and haven't been beaten to death by a fellow inmate..
>>
>> Get a clue...it's you who misses her and in your heart of hearts you
>> know the relationship was getting real sick and had to stop..
>>
>> You actually did the decent thing for once in your life..now own that
>> and be proud of it and hold your head up high!
>>
>> You don't have to beat yourself up or hide in a bottle..
>>
>> Clearly you didn't follow the advice ..at least the part about seeing
>> a doctor or counselor you trusted to talk over *YOUR* feelings ..
>>
>> I suggest you rectify that ASAP....
>>
>> You need a little more that AA or any other twelve step program can
>> give you..
>>
>> One day you will realize maybe what a narrow escape you had
>>
>>
>>>
>>> As regards any crimes and "wars against thereof, let us take a moment
>>> to consider a a quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson: "What you resist
>>> persists". Does this not have any pertinence as regards the war
>>> against terrorism, the war against drugs, the war against . . .(fill
>>> in the blanks)? What if, instead of "resisting/fighting"', we were to
>>> pursue that which we truly desire? Do not fight/struggle against that
>>> which you do not desire, but fully and consciously intend for that
>>> which you DO desire!
>>
>> Nope Emerson would certainly have told you to keep your hands off kids
>> and your dick in your pocket..
>>
>>
>>
>
>My two cents worth: This is bad advice.
>
>
>If I were going to seek out the help of some sort of therapist or counselor,
>I would not (REPEAT NOT) discusss "...YOUR feelings..." In most venues the
>therapist is required by law to report the client and most therapists happily
>do so, even when there has been no criminal activity.
That's why I said one he trusted..
The OP claimed his nine year old niece was coming on to him and said
he was disturbed by his reactions..
>
>Worse yet, most skilled therapists can elicit a report of molestation from a
>young child. It is not the difficult to plant ideas and particularly when
>you tell the person, "...you may not remember this, but that doesn't mean it
>didn't happen..."
False Memory Syndrome is pretty well documented now and only a lousy
therapist or one with some hidden agenda would do that...
The therapy needed is for him not the child..
>Indeed people who are molested, raped or attacked often do
>supress their memory of the event...read PTSD literature if you question
>that.
sure...
>
>Tread carefully here in substance abuse programs as well.
That's why I have doubts of the utility of his "recovery program" for
his particular problems...well meaning alcoholics have experience in
being drunks but I doubt their ability to help pedophiles deal with
their urges..
>
>Do not confess to so-called 'black-out' drinking (or drugging). It is a
>deadly combination. The "victim" doesn't remember what happened because
>he/she is 'burying it' and the perpetrator doesn't remember because he/she
>has "black out" intoxication...who's to say what, if anything, happened?
I actually believe nothing happened in this case and to break contact
before it did was a huge step for him..
>
>The therapist or NCMEC are always happy to fill in the blanks.
>
>Perhaps some folks can suggest ways around this. Anonymous therapy might be
>one. I don't know how that would work.
Speaking from an anti-pedophile position I have to admit you make some
good points...
Where does a pedophile wishing help before he gives in to his urges to
assault a child go?
Perhaps that explains the irony of this character posting for advice
in a pedophile group as to what to do about his relationship with his
niece..
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