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From: 4s00th <4s00th@hushmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.prettyboy
Subject: Re: Ping Y-Not
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:31:07 -0400
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On 11 Oct 2008 09:50:02 -0500, Jerry <invalid@mail.com> wrote:
>> my reply to this:
>>> forgiveness you say? what a lot of religious crap. For your own good, I
>>> expect nobody believe this bullshit.
>>
>> Every religion I know about teaches forgiveness somewhere in it so it
>> must come from something basic in human nature.
>
>You don't seem to know very much about human nature, do you, Grant the
>multiple? So leave far behind those easy precepts from your boyhood and
>think more about the real and impious human nature.
Human nature, like many things, is a double-edged sword. On the one
hand, there is the sheer pettiness and selfishness; on the other, the
sheer capacity for good. It's always been a matter of choice. Maybe
you can't be good all the time -- but why not try it every now and
then? Goodness is it's own reward -- and that is its only reward. No
wonder it's so easy to be bad!
>> Its something we need
>> to practice to be happy whether we follow any religion or not.
>
>It's something that 'you' need to practice to be happy. And lamentably
>happy, I could say. So don't confound your particular experiences with
>those others from the rest. Don't confound yourself with me, bytheway, I
>don't deserve such an affront, I told you before.
>
>> The first and most important person we need to forgive is *ourself*.
>> I had to work hard at it but I'm much more at peace with myself now and
>> happy like I never thought possible.
>
>
>About yourself, I don't mind very much. I'm honest, but!
>But think a little about forgiveness itself. Doesn't forgivenes implies,
>inexcusably, something to be forgiven? I can't help wondering the why of
>this compliant attitude, of this sly deception to yourselves. Let's take a
>look at some of the most infamous sentences of the 'fort':
>
>'I just want to help my brothers', say Dock the monkey
>'I just want to help everyone', say the suicidal 4sooth
The "suicidal 4s00th," that gives me a little bit of a different
perspective on myself. I don't consider myself suicidal. Yes, I think
about it. Yes, I have the impulses -- sometimes so strongly that I can
almost feel the sensations that the impulse image invokes (ie,
sometimes when I imagine hanging myself, I can almost feel the rope
around my neck). Interestingly enough, even though I know how I would
do it if I chose to do it, I don't ever imagine doing it that way
since it would involve a certain amount of pleasure! (I've been
deathly allergic to shell-fish since I turned 13!) But I'm not
planning on doing it. I live with the impulses and deny them. I don't
really want to die -- I just feel like I want to die. I'm not a
genuine suicide risk. The problem is that having to deal with those
impulses and feelings is just so damn painful!
>'I just want to find solace to my solitude' say Mikey the adventist
>
>'Just want', what a lamentable periphrasis in your mouths, don't you think?
>It's not your yearning what exposes here, but your weakness. And at the
>same time you show it, you distort proud terms: brother, solitude, help.
>Nauseous. Help who? Help the humanity?, you all better help yourself first.
>What reason can have the poor 4sooth to 'help' the humanity? Is it maybe
>that he determined to be in debt to them? I believe so. Self-humiliation,
>self-mortification I call that debt.
I have to ask you what happened to you that you equate helping others
with self-humiliation? Just how am I humiliating myself by offering
help to others? Are you suggesting that I make myself subordinate to
others in offering help? I certainly don't see that. There are people
who suggest that they owe me a debt for the help I've given them --
but that's just the way they feel, not that I demand anything in
return. I would like it if we could build a community that nurtures
each of us and offers support and help to us all in turn -- but I do
not ask anything in return for my offer of help.
And you suggest that I need to spend more time helping myself. Two
points -- I am working on that, and don't you understand that part of
the way I help myself is by helping others? Too many of us seem to
believe that help or teaching only goes one way -- but that's just
plain silly. When you understand that you can learn something from
every single person you see, you can begin to travel the path towards
wisdom. Even if, by helping someone else, I'm only reinforcing some of
the same things that I need to remember, I'm helping myself. But most
of the time, in helping others, I see things from a different
perspective, I see new situations that I might not have ever imagined,
I learn and I help myself in return.
>And unnecessary absolution I call to
>your 'help', to your 'forgiveness'. If you feel so bad with yourselves, you
>could try to scourge yourself every night before going to bed, that would
>be more honest. What a false help you offer, I don't want it for myself,
>neither received or given, it would shame myself. And with this precise
>shame, you would feed your ego. Preachers, charlatans, vampires of the
>human shame, go back to your god. Go back to your 'fort'. Doesn't the word
>'fort' itself means a place to hide and refuge? That's what you deserve.
>The new boylovers don't need people like you. Do you really think people
>will come to a place like this? Not in times like these. Your sweet
>mermaid's songs are not made for times like these, just take a look at the
>forums out there.
And what are you seeing in those forums? All I see, in places other
than the fort, are people who just want excuses to behave badly.
-- 4s00th@hushmail.com
If you send email, I will reply to it here at asbl
(without showing your email addy)
unless you ask me not to.
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