On 25 Aug 2010 22:22:01 -0500, Morpheus <Morpheus@dreamland.com>
wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 07:31:47 -0700, HMS Victor Victorian wrote
>(in article <es9a76p7lva1834kptqip07k233jeqaj23@4ax.com>):
>
>> On 25 Aug 2010 01:46:01 -0500, Morpheus <Morpheus@dreamland.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:43:03 -0700, HMS Victor Victorian wrote
>>> (in article <ece876d2j64al5no5nnggh8f11atopevm3@4ax.com>):
>>>
>>>> On 24 Aug 2010 15:52:01 -0500, Morpheus <Morpheus@dreamland.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 09:16:06 -0700, Z NP-f6 wrote
>>>>> (in article <umq776tuv4sjb3q8b7cosfn2lp05usa2o6@4ax.com>):
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 10:30:47 -0400, NP-f31 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (snip)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I've learned is my kid IS paying attention, and not just when I
>>>>>>> tell him 'this is something you need to remember'. He is modelling
>>>>>>> himself after me. That is what Dads are for. That is what boylovers
>>>>>>> should aspire to be. For all the beauty of a boy and all the
>>>>>>> enchantment he can bring to your life, what is important is what YOU
>>>>>>> can mean for HIM. Even when you have less access to a boy, like with
>>>>>>> me and T-Bone or Mac, the time you spend with them talking and doing
>>>>>>> things has an accumulative effect. Even if you're just cutting up and
>>>>>>> having fun, they ARE watching and what you do for them has a lifelong
>>>>>>> effect. I pray that every boylover who is brave and lucky enough to
>>>>>>> take on a loved boy remembers that whether he tries purposefully or
>>>>>>> not, he IS having a permanent impact on the boy he loves. By loving
>>>>>>> your boy unselfishly, you guarantee that your legacy will be a
>>>>>>> positive one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Love,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS-Sorry Z if that last paragraph came off a bit preachy. I know you
>>>>>>> get it, but you're not the only one who will read this. Mea culpa.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not at all preachy, Doc! Look around and everywhere people are fouling
>>>>>> up kids by sending them the wrong messages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given my circumstances and character I know that I will never be able
>>>>>> to bring up a kid but I try with all the kids I meet to remember that,
>>>>>> even with the most casual meetings, they are watching and learning!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's easier for part-time people like me than for committed people
>>>>>> like you which is why I respect what you do so much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On a more mundane note, don't let that youngest boy of yours get
>>>>>> swollen-headed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Love from Z
>>>>>
>>>>> Absolutely true.
>>>>>
>>>>> The question is NEVER if a kid learns anything. They are doing nothing
>>>>> else
>>>>> all the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> The question is WHAT did they learn? WHAT did you teach them?
>>>>
>>>> Dearest Morpheus,
>>>>
>>>> I think you've made an astute observation and query. I have always
>>>> suspected, although also having acknowledged that my belief may
>>>> simply be a reflection of my own insecurities and perceived failings,
>>>> that the impact parents make on the enculturation of their children,
>>>> is highly over-estimated. A parent or parent-surrogate who might
>>>> believe himself to be successful would, of course, stringently
>>>> disagree, but I hold that a child's personality is fairly properly
>>>> forged by the age of two, and that those who make the greatest
>>>> immediate and long-lived impact on his enculturation are not his
>>>> parents, nor adults at all.
>>>>
>>>> It is his peers.
>>>>
>>>> So, in general, what children have learned is not what we as parents
>>>> or adults think they've learned, and what we taught them not at all
>>>> the content that they gleened from us.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and by the way ... I must state here that I am rather tired of the
>>>> admonition of what messages we are sending to our youngsters. Nowadays
>>>> we seem to always be sending messages--the wrong ones usually. If
>>>> only half of the messages we were supposedly sending were actually
>>>> sent, we'd not be able to converse due to the cacaphony of
>>>> exhortations!
>>>>
>>>> And I'd also like people to cease and desist criticising the chubby
>>>> youngsters, and the skinny ones, and the ones who are overly shy or
>>>> overly energetic, and the kids who aren't making the grade.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and stop, please, medicating them for these imagined deficiencies
>>>> as well.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> HMS Victor Victorian, NP-g18
>>>>
>>>> God Save the Queen.
>>>> God Bless the Prince of Wales.
>>>> God Preserve the Windsors.
>>>> Rule Britannia!
>>>
>>> I think research has been done showing the strong effect peers have on
>>> child
>>> behavior. But there are other strong factors as well including inherited
>>> tendancies, parental behavior, etc.
>>>
>>> My point was that kids are sponges, they soak up everything. They are very
>>> observant and, for the most part, very astute and well tuned in to
>>> emotional
>>> nuance. They learn at a very young age to respond to their mother's mood.
>>>
>>> I think that the view that personality is determined by age two is not
>>> well-supported. Kids at that age are still developing quite a bit
>>> cognitively. Their ability to form cause and effect relationships and to
>>> project into the unseen is a bit limited.
>>>
>>> But even if we move that age back, to 9 say, to say that personality is
>>> determined would lead to the notion that people can't change their
>>> fundamental make up, yet we know that many people do exactly that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Dear Morpheus,
>>
>> Accept my apologies for misunderstanding your intent. Such happens
>> when the listener's listening is flawed due to having an agenda
>> plugging the auditory receptors! I may be suffering that ailment!
>>
>> You may wish to review the evidence provided by research into child
>> growth and development. When it comes to the human species, one must
>> always apply the term "generally". People may indeed fundamentally
>> change the basic elements of their personalities--their fundamental
>> makek-up, but generally I believe they do not. Nor do they have a
>> choice in the matter, really.
>>
>> Yes. Children are sponges. Dickie was constantly badgering me for a
>> quid or two! Now as an adult, I regret to say, he solicits
>> considerably more!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> HMS Victor V.
>>
>> God Save the Queen.
>> God Bless the Prince of Wales.
>> God Preserve the Windsors.
>> Rule Britannia!
>
>Thanks HVV for your comments. There is a wide range of variation in human
>behavior, that's for sure....so using the word 'generally' makes a lot of
>sense.
>
>We also need always to be careful in differentiating so-called 'human nature'
>from learned behavior. Which behaviors belong in which category is subject
>to considerable questioning.
>
>I generally tend to mistrust claims that this or that behavior is 'human
>nature'. I think we don't really know the nature of human nature (if you'll
>forgive me).
>
>I agree that most people don't really change that much over the course of
>their lives, but some people do, so that supports an argument that it's
>possible to make such changes....not common, but possible.
>
>And Dickie, as I point out, is only doing what you taught him to do... :)
>
>Take care,
Dear Morpheus,
I am in complete agreement. Above all other species, human nature IS
defined almost exclusively by learned behaviours. Culture was our
reply to the demands of natural selection.
Regarding my dearest now-middle-aged boy Richard, you are absolutely
right! As a boy, he had a firm grasp on my heart-strings, and I could
not resist granting him whatever favour he wished ... all he need do
was to light up his face with a hopeful, beaming smile, or put on his
pout--his lower lip ludicrously stuck out near past his chin,
invariably drawing from me a laugh and compliance!
Guilty, I say! For I am unabashedly guilty.
Wiser now, I tell you I would do it all again!
Sincerely,
V
God Save the Queen.
God Bless the Prince of Wales.
God Preserve the Windsors.
Rule Britannia!
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