In article <b754269ftl41h8hm4mvud8517dm0l9j8i3@4ax.com>, HMS Victor
Victorian <victorvictorian@hushunomail.com> wrote:
> On 22 Jun 2010 19:52:02 -0500, " +Grant. " <+Grant@grant.grant> wrote:
>
> >In article <q0e2269735a2t8gjnnri27mo6v5ngfu46l@4ax.com>, HMS Victor
> >Victorian <victorvictorian@hushunomail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 18:14:15 -0400, Mover <Mover@Watch-Me.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <p872269ovkj1il76guef2hkdd7uaq8fh6r@4ax.com>, HMS Victor
> >> >Victorian <victorvictorian@hushunomail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:48:46 -0400, Mover <Mover@Watch-Me.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >In article <Grant-me-that-2106102@Grant.Grant>, +Grant.
> >> >> ><+Grant@grant.grant> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> The Adventures of Stevie #9
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> These stories were told to me by friends and other people. Some of
> >> >> >> them
> >> >> >> are true. Some of them are only partly true. Some of them should have
> >> >> >> been true. LOL
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> My first post about Stevie ("Call me Stephen!") was when he was 12
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> in summer camp and was told by another camper. This was from a time
> >> >> >> before computers would fit on a desk and when people communicated
> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> friends in other countries by actual letters sent through the postal
> >> >> >> service. When children did this those friends were called "penpals".
> >> >> >> Carlos is Stevie's penpal in Argentina and knows English. This is a
> >> >> >> fictional contrivance to enable Stevie to tell us his stories because
> >> >> >> he isn't here in person. I think.
> >> >> >> The stories may not be posted in chronological order.
> >> >> >> Stevie's school is for gifted children who don't fit in regular
> >> >> >> schools.
> >> >> >> It's spring now, and Stevie has just turned 11. He has studied to
> >> >> >> become a better communicator, and has succeeded.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The Adventures of Stevie #9 "Tit for Tat"
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Dear Carlos,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I learned a very important lesson this week. I will tell you about
> >> >> >> it
> >> >> >> later. First I have to tell you about what happened in fencing class.
> >> >> >> The teacher was surprised I hit what I aim for all the time, no
> >> >> >> matter
> >> >> >> how fast I move. I told him it was because of two things. I have very
> >> >> >> strong fingers from my metal sculpture I have been doing since I was
> >> >> >> very little, and I always know exactly where the target is, so I can
> >> >> >> aim the foil fast and thrust right. He didn't believe me, so I showed
> >> >> >> him. He believes me now and is a little sore for it. Ha ha. I showed
> >> >> >> him how strong my fingers are by grabbing his wrist and squeezing it
> >> >> >> until he yelled STOP. He was very surprised a weak looking little boy
> >> >> >> could to that. I guess he never saw me practice bending forks and
> >> >> >> spoons with the fingers of one hand at lunch. The judo and karate
> >> >> >> teacher we call Sensei already knows. Then I put some tape on the
> >> >> >> wall
> >> >> >> in different places and wrote numbers on them. I turned my back to
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> wall and told him to call out the numbers in any order. He did that
> >> >> >> and
> >> >> >> I hit each number over my shoulder with the tip of the foil without
> >> >> >> looking, as fast as he could call out the numbers. He said "how did
> >> >> >> you
> >> >> >> do that?" I said "I already told you. I know where the targets are. I
> >> >> >> saw them, remember? I didn't have to look again because they didn't
> >> >> >> move." I don't think he believed me, but he couldn't think of
> >> >> >> anything
> >> >> >> else. It was a good thing I didn't tell him most times I don't have
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> see a target at all to know where it is, even if I never saw it
> >> >> >> before.
> >> >> >> I think Sensei knows, because nobody can sneak up behind me and get
> >> >> >> away with it, but he won't tell. I will explain it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Sometimes I know about things I can't see, because I have special
> >> >> >> hearing. I can hear very soft sounds that nobody else can hear until
> >> >> >> the sounds get louder, and I can hear higher frequencies than normal
> >> >> >> people, which only animals like cats and dogs can hear. Mother
> >> >> >> doesn't
> >> >> >> know because she would think I am a freak. Father knows because he
> >> >> >> saw
> >> >> >> that loud sounds hurt my ears more than normal people, and had me
> >> >> >> tested. There is something else nobody can really understand except
> >> >> >> somebody who is blind. Just like them I can use my ears to see. They
> >> >> >> learn it because they don't have eyes that work so they have to
> >> >> >> concentrate on hearing, but I do it better because I was born with
> >> >> >> better hearing and grew up with seeing ears so my brain grew in a way
> >> >> >> that helps me use that better, just like bats see in the dark with
> >> >> >> their ears. They make sounds and listen to them bounce off things.
> >> >> >> That
> >> >> >> tells them where the thing is and how hard it is, because sounds
> >> >> >> bounce
> >> >> >> back sharper from hard things than soft things which soak up part of
> >> >> >> the sound. You can make different kinds of sounds, and from what
> >> >> >> comes
> >> >> >> back you can tell different things about what they bounce off of. If
> >> >> >> you don't believe me I can tell how you can hear this for yourself.
> >> >> >> Have you ever been in a room that echos when you make a sound? That's
> >> >> >> what I hear all the time, but I get a lot more information from it
> >> >> >> because I can hear higher frequencies that bounce better. If you hang
> >> >> >> lots of curtains in that room, the echos will stop because the sounds
> >> >> >> are absorbed by the cloth. Here is another test. Go into a quiet
> >> >> >> medium
> >> >> >> size room and put an electric fan in it. You sit or stand about 10
> >> >> >> feet
> >> >> >> from the fan with your back to it, so you can feel the wind on you.
> >> >> >> Ask
> >> >> >> somebody to walk halfway between you and the fan as quiet as they can
> >> >> >> so you can't hear them move, and stand between you and the fan. You
> >> >> >> will hear the sound from the fan change when they do that. You might
> >> >> >> be
> >> >> >> able to feel the difference in the air on your skin when the air
> >> >> >> changes the way it moves, too. I hear these things and a whole lot
> >> >> >> more. Because of this I have a good picture of a room I'm in and know
> >> >> >> everything that changes in it, all without having to think about it
> >> >> >> or
> >> >> >> see it with my eyes. There is more. I can hear people breathing and
> >> >> >> sometimes their heart beat, and their knees and elbows move, and
> >> >> >> their
> >> >> >> shoes squeak, and their clothing rubbing together that they can't
> >> >> >> hear.
> >> >> >> This helps me a lot in body reading and signaling, which I will
> >> >> >> explain
> >> >> >> to you next.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> We don't just communicate by talking. We communicate with how our
> >> >> >> faces
> >> >> >> and bodies move, sometimes even more than speaking. It's like a
> >> >> >> language and a code. The language is simple but the codes are complex
> >> >> >> and hard to read unless you learn and practice. A language is a way
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> communicate ideas and a lot more. A code is something that means
> >> >> >> something it isn't. It's like shaking your head. Unless you are
> >> >> >> trying
> >> >> >> to avoid a fly buzzing around your face, it means you are saying NO.
> >> >> >> That's a simple code. If you put a lot of simple codes together you
> >> >> >> can
> >> >> >> make it almost as complex as a real language and communicate a lot of
> >> >> >> information with it, which we all do but most people don't notice we
> >> >> >> send and receive this information from each other all the time. If we
> >> >> >> don't know we are doing it, and don't study the body codes and what
> >> >> >> they mean, we can't fake it, so people who know the body codes can
> >> >> >> learn a lot about us we don't want them to, like they can tell if we
> >> >> >> lie. My father teaches this part time at the school, and cyphers and
> >> >> >> lock-picking too, which are more things we can talk about later.
> >> >> >> There
> >> >> >> is one more thing about this. You can make up your own codes, like
> >> >> >> lift
> >> >> >> your shoulder and move a little finger at the same time to say you
> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> hungry to somebody who you told that's what it means. You can make up
> >> >> >> your own secret body code and nobody else will know what it means
> >> >> >> except the people who learn it. This way we can do like talking to
> >> >> >> each
> >> >> >> other and nobody knows we are doing it. Father teaches it to us.
> >> >> >> Students have our own body code at the school. Teachers have a
> >> >> >> different code. They don't know I know most of it because I am my
> >> >> >> father's best body code student. We call doing it signaling. I can
> >> >> >> understand the body language better than normal people because I can
> >> >> >> hear some of it, not just see it. I am very good at reading poker
> >> >> >> players. Ha ha.
> >> >> >> You should know about all this because it helps explain what happened
> >> >> >> later.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Ever since I learned what breasts are for, I have been very curious
> >> >> >> about them. I decided to experiment. SueAnn is a student at my
> >> >> >> school.
> >> >> >> She is 14 and has big breasts, and is very shy. When I see her in the
> >> >> >> hallway and nobody else is around, I run up to her and squeeze one of
> >> >> >> her breasts a little. She holds very still and her face turns bright
> >> >> >> pink. She looks like a like a frozen popsicle in a dress with hot
> >> >> >> sauce
> >> >> >> on top. Then she runs to the girl's bathroom, and I run away to the
> >> >> >> boy's bathroom to wait for my monster to quiet down. So far I have
> >> >> >> done
> >> >> >> this to both her breasts and with both of my hands, which I change
> >> >> >> back
> >> >> >> and forth, and no milk has come out yet to make her dress wet. She
> >> >> >> never tells on me. These experiments are exciting in a fun way. A
> >> >> >> week
> >> >> >> ago I ran into the bathroom after one of the experiments, and Will
> >> >> >> was
> >> >> >> there standing in the middle with his zipper down.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Will is 14 and is the strongest student. He has bigger muscles than
> >> >> >> anybody I ever saw. He can lift people over his head! He is the best
> >> >> >> at
> >> >> >> judo, but I never practiced with him. He likes me a little because
> >> >> >> I'm
> >> >> >> good at karate, and I have a special claw hand shape I use to grab,
> >> >> >> that's very strong.
> >> >> >> His zipper was down because it was broken. He asked me to help him
> >> >> >> fix
> >> >> >> it because my hands are smaller than his and would fit there better,
> >> >> >> and I have very strong fingers. I tried jerking the zipper thing up
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> a long time and it didn't move, but something else did. His monster
> >> >> >> grew upward too. I couldn't help touching it through his tight white
> >> >> >> briefs when I was jerking the zipper up, because his pants were so
> >> >> >> tight. He started making little moaning noises like a ghost from the
> >> >> >> bottom of a dry well. I knew what that meant! I tried to back away
> >> >> >> before he made my fingers slimy, but he grabbed my hands and made
> >> >> >> them
> >> >> >> rub his monster more. I was caught and couldn't get away. Then his
> >> >> >> monster jumped and my fingers were wet and sticky. He let me go, and
> >> >> >> I
> >> >> >> washed my hands. I said I couldn't fix his zipper, and was going to
> >> >> >> get
> >> >> >> some safety pins to close his pants, and ran out of there.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I came back with the pins, and gave them to him. He asked me to help
> >> >> >> him put them in. I tried but he jerked my face too close to his
> >> >> >> zipper
> >> >> >> for some reason I don't know, and I accidentally stabbed my thumb
> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> the pin. A little blood came out. He said he was sorry, but didn't
> >> >> >> sound like it, and pulled me up so he could look at it. Then he put
> >> >> >> my
> >> >> >> whole thumb in his mouth and sucked hard up and down it. It felt
> >> >> >> strange and and my monster liked it a little. I asked him why he was
> >> >> >> doing it, and tried to pull away, but he wouldn't let go. He made
> >> >> >> some
> >> >> >> noises but he couldn't talk so I could understand while my thumb was
> >> >> >> plugging up his mouth. Now I know why the dentist didn't understand
> >> >> >> what I was trying to tell him. I finally pulled my thumb away, which
> >> >> >> came out with a loud "plop". I was rubbing my thumb dry on my shirt
> >> >> >> while I ran out of there and back to class. I run everywhere. He came
> >> >> >> back a little later with his pants closed with the safety pins.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Things changed. Will kept looking at me all day and the next day like
> >> >> >> he was hungry and rubbing his zipper when he thought nobody would
> >> >> >> see.
> >> >> >> He was wrong. People did see and I could tell they didn't like it.
> >> >> >> That
> >> >> >> kind of body code doesn't lie. I didn't like it either, and I didn't
> >> >> >> like what he made me do in the bathroom. He didn't ask, and that made
> >> >> >> it bad. If Jeremy asked me, I might do it, but Jeremy is nice and
> >> >> >> would
> >> >> >> never make me, and Will is mean and might hurt me to make me. Then
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> school psychologist Dr. Wyman Knot came and signaled a come-with code
> >> >> >> to Mrs. Toffeekness, the literature teacher who was in the class, and
> >> >> >> they went out of the classroom and whispered to each other, which I
> >> >> >> heard without them knowing it. They were going to take Will away.
> >> >> >> Then
> >> >> >> they came back in and took Will out of the class. He never came back.
> >> >> >> They said Will was expelled, and we would never see him again. I felt
> >> >> >> better he wasn't here anymore to do what he did, but I felt sorry for
> >> >> >> him too. This is a great school.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What happened with Will made me think about what I did with SueAnn.
> >> >> >> Then I ran to the bathroom and cried. I was just as mean as Will! I
> >> >> >> didn't want to be like that. NEVER NEVER NEVER! I didn't want to make
> >> >> >> people feel bad like Will did to me. I didn't want to be expelled
> >> >> >> too.
> >> >> >> Then I wiped my face and went to talk to SueAnn. I told her I was
> >> >> >> very
> >> >> >> sorry I did what I did to her without her permission, that I didn't
> >> >> >> understand it was bad before, and I would never do it again. She said
> >> >> >> "thank you", and took my hand, and we went back to class. I almost
> >> >> >> cried again.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I learned this very important lesson.
> >> >> >> Doing things to people's body's they don't want you to do is very
> >> >> >> bad.
> >> >> >> Making them do things to your body they don't want to do is very bad
> >> >> >> too.
> >> >> >> Making people feel bad so you can feel good is maybe the worst thing
> >> >> >> in
> >> >> >> the world.
> >> >> >> I will remember this lesson all my life.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Your friend,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Stephen
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I see what you mean, about the explanations. They promise intriguing
> >> >> >things to come.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >An important lesson, is very true. I like it.
> >> >> >Stevie is growing up, as should we all.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I look forward to reading your next creation.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Mover, the avid reader
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Ps
> >> >> >Doc is wrong. The posters who contributed to the names of "Dr. Wyman
> >> >> >Knot (lol) and Mrs. Toffeeknees", were not always enemies, contrary to
> >> >> >what Doc wanted, and did collaborate at times.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Dear Mover,
> >> >>
> >> >> " ... as should we all."
> >> >>
> >> >> Should we?
> >> >>
> >> >> Growing up is the seed of all the problems in the world.
> >> >>
> >> >> Think about it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Respectfully,
> >> >> VV
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Dear VV,
> >> >
> >> >The goal of "growing up", in this context, is to become wise.
> >> >
> >> >It is when this doesn't happen to us, when we physically grow into
> >> >adulthood, that we cause and have real problems, because then we have
> >> >the power denied to us when we were children, to more destructively act
> >> >out our selfishness.
> >> >
> >> >As you see, I disagree with you, in a small way. I would recommend you
> >> >rephrase your statement to read:
> >> >"Incompletely growing up is the seed of all the problems in the world."
> >> >
> >> >It's not as specific as I would have written the concept, but you would
> >> >have had less argument from me. LOL
> >> >
> >> >I hope Grant continues to imbibe Stevie with more wisdom, because it
> >> >could be of benefit us all, and even more so, to Grant himself.
> >> >
> >> >Respectfully,
> >> >
> >> >Mover, past(?) problem child, looking for something to make fun of, and
> >> >unhappily not finding it
> >>
> >> Ah, I shall not.
> >> Because ...
> >> I could not disagree with you more, dear sir.
> >>
> >> For to-day, I beheld a classroom full of adults,
> >> From around the globe
> >> From places of poverty, cruelty and injustice,
> >> A classroom of adults ,mothers and fathers,
> >> Who upon sitting at communal tables,
> >> Quite naturally segregated themselves into like with like.
> >> And with their young sons, as well.
> >> Who soon tired of sitting so,
> >> And got up
> >> And discovered one another
> >> Boy to boy to boy
> >> And played as if they were not
> >> Strangers
> >> But as if they deary, life-long chums.
> >>
> >> So,
> >> I must prefer the wisdom of immaturity,
> >> To that which any "growing up" can give.
> >>
> >> Sincerely Yours,
> >>
> >> HMS Victor Victorian NP-g18
> >
> >This is great! Just what I hoped my stories would help happen.
> >Discussions we need.
> >
> >I have my point to make too.
> >
> >I agree and disagree with you both. LOL
> >
> >VV, innocence isn't wisdom, no matter how inviting it looks to us who
> >wish we still had it. There is another more savage aspect to childhood
> >innocence, shown in "Lord of the Flies". Romanticizing childhood
> >doesn't do it or us justice. Not even Peter Pan could get away with it.
> >
> >I think part of becoming wise is unlearning things you learned before,
> >that were not wise. That's very hard for most people, more so when they
> >don't think they need to question what they were taught when they were
> >too young to know better.
> >
> >Stevie story #14 will be about prejudice and discrimination, which you
> >observed happen. I will write it in a way we can all relate to.
> >Naturally. I hope. LOL
> >
> >I think you both are more wise than any child can be.
> >Besides complementing people I like and admire, I think this truth
> >makes Mover's comments a little closer to being right.
>
>
> Dear Grant,
>
> I agree. Children are capable of great cruelty. Innocence is not
> wisdom, but wisdom is not always preferable to innocence. As acquired
> by adults, wisdom implies the use of knowledge to obtain a positive
> result or end, and there have been many very wise, and very bad
> people.
>
> You mention William Golding's wonderful and horrifying work as an
> example of the more "savage aspect to childhood innocence". Again, I
> must disagree. The first thing the boys did was behave like adults,
> as adults had taught them. They consciously, and perhaps against
> their natural intuition, constructed their lives to reflect the adult
> world in its institutions and behavours. You saw the result.
>
> Who, pray tell, was the wiser in this tale? Jack or Ralph? Consider
> the results of each one's actions. Then tell me who was the more
> innocent? Who was the more congenial and likeable? Who was good? And
> who was bad?
>
> Your story articulates a very simple, but durable axiom of life. I
> learned it as "The Golden Rule" and remain convinced to this day that,
> had we all adhered to its simple guide, we would see much less
> savagery in the world.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> V
>
>
>
>
> God Save the Queen.
> God Bless the Prince of Wales.
> God Preserve the Windsors.
> Rule Britannia!
I see these disagreements are based on different philosophical
understandings of the nature and definition of wisdom, and are unlikely
to be resolved in this forum. 0r even in a fiveum. But it has been very
interesting, even educational, all the same.
I look forward to future discussions Grant's stories may encourage.
Mover, hooked on debait
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