On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 20:05:48 -0500, "::Y-Not::" <+10$-Y-Not@here.com>
wrote:
>In article <qfc0p19tdrf0aadve5mv52g11puil0v962@4ax.com>,
><MichaellikeGod@heaven> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 01:50:51 -0600, Bellamy <dot@dot.cum> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> LOL...indirectly to your lost and hopeless soul.
>>
>> I pray you enjoy God's curse He brings upon you!
>>
>> God Bless
>>
>> t Michael t
>>
>>
>
>Let us see here:
>You say God will curse him? And then you tell God to bless him?
>But before that, you pray he should ENJOY God's curse?
>
>Before you should preach to some "lost and hopeless soul", you really
>should work on your own lost, hopeless, and very confused soul.
>
>
>In my previous last post to you, I tried to lead you to understand
>something. You dismissed me before we finished. We continue now,
>because you REALLY need help.
>
>The Bible as we know it today, was written by many people, mostly from
>what other people told them, and then only certain parts of the
>available holy texts were voted to be included in it, based mostly on
>the political climate of the time. EDITORS! :-/
>And THEN, we have translations, which were also influenced by the
>political climate of the times, and sometimes even intentionally.
>Example; in the King James version, Exodus 22:17-19, it says "Thou
>shalt not suffer a witch to live." Translated from the original Hebrew,
>into idiomatic American English, that would be (my emphasis) "Execute
>all POISONERS". In the King Games translation, the translator was
>ordered to change the word, because Witches ("Wise Women, or Wiccans)
>practiced effective herbal medicine and euthanasia, all of which were
>against the doctrine of the Church at the time, that people should NOT
>have their God willed suffering be ameliorated, and was deliberately
>intended to justify persecution of Pagans.
>Even with honest translation, what results is imperfect, because it is
>done by imperfect man, with his own culture, biases and knowledge
>acting to influence what he does. But there is more. To most
>effectively translate from one language to another, one must understand
>the culture of the person who created the original story.
>Example:
>On more than one Gospel It is said
>***
>> Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto
>> you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the
>> kingdom of heaven.
>> And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to
>> go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to
>> enter into the kingdom of God.
>***
>In reality, at the time, this was a common saying to illustrate the
>impossible. "The Eye of the Needle" was the nickname of a very small
>gate into Jerusalem, that a camel could squeeze through, but not with a
>rich man's belongings strapped to it.
>So, the saying went, "it's as possible as a rich man's camel passing
>through the Eye of the Needle".
>Because of this, it's quite likely that the passage in the Bible was
>actually CREATED to give relevance to a figure of speech that the
>writer didn't understand.
>Another example:
>Many times the Bible refers to something happening THREE TIMES, from
>donkey things, to Peter disowning Jesus.
>This is actually amusing, because the writers actually CREATED stories
>around another figure of speech. Yes, that's what it was. It was used
>for emphasis, and NOT meant to be taken literally. "You will do this
>three times" actually means, "You bet your a** you will!" Jesus said
>this figure of speech to Peter, not to be taken literally, but to add
>emphasis to his statement. But the Gospel writers, in not understanding
>this, CREATED scenes to make it literally true!
>There are many more things in the Bible like this.
>
>So, is the Bible the exact word of God, or fallible imperfect man's
>interpretation of history?
>
>There is one more thing to add to this.
>The various parts of the Bible were written in different languages,
>none of them being modern languages we now use. They were ancient
>Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin, and probably a few others. At the time
>of it's finalization, the Bible was written in Greek, as that was the
>language of higher education then. The various parts have been
>translated into other languages, and then translated again, and each
>translator has produced different results, that get added to by the
>next. There is a reason for this. Those who study Human languages, know
>they are different. So different in fact, that perfect translation from
>one language to another is impossible. The reasons for this are very
>difficult to explain to someone who hasn't studied this, but they are
>very real.
>Given all this, it's just not possible that the various versions and
>translations of the Bible, WHICH ARE NOT THE SAME, can all be the exact
>word of God. We will never have it, from what we know exists at this
>time. What we do have, is a Great Book, with all kinds of wonderfully
>useful teachings in it, and a historical record which is as accurate
>and inaccurate as any other historical record.
>
>Monotheism is against human nature. Worshiping a deity one can't see,
>is even more against human nature. Man usually finds a way to act in
>accordance with his nature, even if he has to lie to himself, in order
>to do it. So we can't see God, but we NEED to worship something
>physical, so we choose a torture device to worship, or graven images of
>people, such as Mary, to worship, or rotting body parts of "Saints" and
>other artifacts, or Russian paintings. And we also choose a BOOK to
>worship. Is it truly God's creation? In a way it is, in the sense that
>all reality is God's creation. So why do we worship only that book that
>is written by man, as His Word, when we can see His Words in EVERYTHING
>he has directly created? Look all around you, to see God for real. The
>Book isn't him, EVERYTHING but what is created by humans with the free
>will he gave us, IS Him.
>
>It really IS a Good Book, but it's not perfect. But then, neither are
>we. He made us that way. :-)
>
>Do I expect you to agree with any of this? Not really, at this time.
>But anything's possible, right? :-)
>
>
>Take care,
>
>
>Y Not
>
>
> "Opening the mind can open the heart.
> Opening the heart can open the mind."
You know God will punish you by your own interpretation of the Bible.
Read the entire context of the Bible, not just look at words and
phrases. Read the entire sentence to get the meaning. Read the entire
paragraph to get the meaning.
When I cursed, I cursed completely including God bless you with a
curse. Any helpless, sick, and demonic soul is already cursed,
therefore, the curse is on that person already and not needing God to
help him by bringing on a curse. Another word I could have used was
wrath instead of curse. That might have been a better understanding to
your pea-brain mind.
As for the Bible interpretations, the Word of God stands as truth. It
was not written by many differert men told by other men. FALSE. It was
inspired by the Holy Spirit. The interpretations brought down through
all the ages might have been told by men to be written and translated
in a certain way by other men. Yes, man has interpreted the Bible
erroneously including you.
There was no church in Exodus at the time.
In Exodus 22:18, my NIV states, "Do not allow a sorceress to live."
This passage strongly condemns sorcery and all such occult practices.
This passage was inspired by the Holy Spirit to be put into God's Word
as such. There was no church at that time to bring about any different
meaning of the context. Then, and only then, when an interpretation is
taken of the context, the context can be reworded, but the context
should retain the same meaning in the interpretation.
You want to use the word poisoners instead of witches or sorceress,
that is fine, but that is your interpretation. You are trying to put
more meaning into the context of the Word of God then what the context
permits or deserves. That is where you get your puffed up knowledge,
but have no wisdom. Get it? Wisdom is not the same as knowledge. You
have knowledge, I have wisdom. Wisdom is putting into practice that
which is knowledge. By putting into practice, you apply that knowledge
to your life scenarios and live by the knowledge without the knowledge
ruling over you. Knowledge rules over you. You do not live as a wise
one indeed.
You say, "So, the saying went, 'it's as possible as a rich man's camel
passing through the Eye of the Needle.'"
Matthew 19:24
Jesus says, "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through
the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
From your saying to what the Bible says, you are misinterpreting the
scripture. Don't change the context or meaning of the scripture. Just
take it literally for what the context states. It is possible for the
camel to go through the eye of a needle, yes, or through the very
narrow gate without any of a rich man's possessions. But strap a rich
man's possessions to the camel and the camel will NOT be able to go
through the gate. You interpret that a rich man can enter the kingdom
of heaven if at all possible to somehow get the camel with the rich
man's possessions strapped to it to pry the animal through the narrow
gate. That is your interpretation but not the Bible's. The Bible
clearly states as such that the camel will NOT be able to go through
the gate with the rich man's possessions.
The writer may not have understood all that was to be written in the
Scripture by being inspired by the Holy Spirit. That is true. But when
the author did not know the meaning of Scripture to be written, the
Holy Spirit indwelt the author to question the meaning. Then the
meaning was given. Good examples are in the book of Daniel and the
parables of Jesus Christ written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. If
there was Scripture that was written to be NOT interpreted, the Holy
Spirit would bypass the question and told the author just to write it
and seal it. Do not try to interpret or put meaning into Scripture
that is not intended for human understanding. Good example is in
Daniel and Revelation. Man has tried to put meaning into Scripture
that is not intended for interpretation. That is where the errors come
in. That is why there is so much debate and argument over the passages
of which God intends for human misunderstanding. Man can try all they
want to interpret the Scripture to there own understanding like you
do, but it is meant for the reader in general to take the context for
what it is worth. The reader should understand from what is read that
certain Scripture should have no interpretation and questions should
not be answered and therefore this passage of no interpretation is to
be left to be pondered and let God indwell understanding to the reader
if He permits. That is where prayer comes in.
You say, "Many times the Bible refers to something happening THREE
TIMES, from donkey things, to Peter disowning Jesus. This is actually
amusing, because the writers actually CREATED stories around another
figure of speech. Yes, that's what it was. It was used for emphasis,
and NOT meant to be taken literally. "You will do this three times"
actually means, "You bet your a** you will!" Jesus said this figure of
speech to Peter, not to be taken literally, but to add emphasis to his
statement. But the Gospel writers, in not understanding this, CREATED
scenes to make it literally true! There are many more things in the
Bible like this."
What is donkey things? Be specific.
Numbers 22:30
The donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your own donkey, which you have
always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to
you?"
When did this occur three times? It only occurred once.
Zechariah 9:9
Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion? Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem?
See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle
and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
When did this occur three times? It is prophecy that was prophecized
once.
Palm Sunday is not celebrated three times in the calendar year. It is
only celebrated once, one week before Easter. When did Palm Sunday
events occur three times in Scripture? There are three accounts of the
same event, not three events.
Peter denied Jesus three times. Peter never disowned Jesus. There is
one event of Peter denying Jesus three times. Not three seperate
events of Peter disowning Jesus. Peter never disowned Jesus but denied
Him. If Peter would have disowned Jesus, why would have Peter wept at
the end of the denial of Jesus? The exterior motive was to deny Jesus,
but the interior motive was not to disown Jesus. You are not
knowledgable in your choice of words used in your messages. It proves
to me that you take your own choice of words and apply them to
Scripture and then Satan closes your mind to the meaning of the
Scriptures so that you can try to trick or flame me for not
understanding Scripture. Who does not understand Scripture here? You
or me? I take Scripture literally keeping in context to it, while you
insert your own words into the Scripture so that you can derive your
own meaning and understanding of Scripture.
You say, "Given all this, it's just not possible that the various
versions and translations of the Bible, WHICH ARE NOT THE SAME, can
all be the exact word of God. We will never have it, from what we know
exists at this time. What we do have, is a Great Book, with all kinds
of wonderfully useful teachings in it, and a historical record which
is as accurate and inaccurate as any other historical record.
If the context and meaning of Scripture is the same from the old
interpretations to the new interpretations, then the Scripture is
sound. Why would not the meanings and context be the same if only
different words are used to convey the same meaning? Interpretations
have the same meanings and context. If you do not have a Bible that
has the same context or meaning as the old interpretations, then throw
out the Bible because it is a Satanic Bible. Good example would be the
NAB Bible that the Catholics have written for the Catholic church. It
does not have the same context or meaning to the King James Version so
it is Satanic and should be thrown out. The NIV, however, has the same
context and meaning of the King James Version, so the Bible is sound.
You say, "Monotheism is against human nature. Worshiping a deity one
can't see, is even more against human nature."
Whose nature are you implying. Your nature may be as such, but my
nature is to worship one deity. One God only in the Trinity. There is
God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is Spirit.
Therefore, there is one God in the Father as the Spirit, the only
Spirit in Jesus Christ, and that Spirit is the Holy Spirit imparted
among Christians. Christians only believe in one God. If you believe
there are more God's than one or your human nature is to worship more
than one God, be my guest. Worship all your gods but don't impose that
it is against my nature to practice monotheism because you are wrong.
The Catholics may worship a statute of Mary or a statute of Jesus
Christ but they are practicing idolatry. That is their religion
practices, not mine. I don't worship the Bible either. I worship God.
I read the Word of God which is the Bible, but do not worship a book,
painting, or any other artifacts. For the Word of God has always been
but the book has not. Who can destroy the Word of God? Why is the
Bible the oldest written book of humanity? Humanity has tried to
destroy God's Word and has failed. Being humanity has discovered that
God's Word endures forever, then they take the next best step and try
to put their own meaning and context into Scripture to distort it.
This is true of the NAB Bible. But there are those interpretors that
have been pure in intention and have kept God's Word sound.
2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who
does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of
truth.
2 Timothy 2:16
Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become
more and more ungodly.
I think I can speak for myself in regards to 2 Timothy 2:15 whereas
you might consider yourself relating to the ungodly in 2 Timothy 2:16.
t Michael t
P.S. Wisdom is the God-given ability to see life with rare objectivity
and to handle life with rare stability.
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