*Please forgive my responses being interspersed between your comments, it
seemed the best way to format my reply...
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:16:13 +0300, Eloi Morlock wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
>
> Dear Brother Pvt.Panic! (Is that a name, or a statement? I'm asking very
> friendly ;-)
>
Hello to you brother. Good question, can't it be both? ;-)
BTW I am a "The Time Machine" fan also :-)
>
> Your 'Fila' posting seems to be an arbitrary collection of photographs
> shot in one -- and only -- session some time before 1985, but published
> in several instances around the said year.
>
Agreed on those being one session, however the date is incorrect. She
appeared in Mayfair Vol.13 No.7 (July 1978) and Mayfair Vol.14 No.6 (June
1979). The photographs (10-18) you correctly ascribe to Mayfair below are
from the 1978 edition, the 1979 set is clearly from a later shoot.
I have personally verified this information by purchasing said back-
issues, they were expensive but worth it to demystify "Fila". You will
see for yourself when I post them later this weekend.
There are also a few other shoots definitely taken subsequent to this
date, likely in 1980.
>
> a. The cover and first eight pictures (Fila Lander) were scanned from a
> Japanese book 'Lolita Märchen' of 1984, or a partly republication of it
> as 'Kitty Island', publishing year unknown.
>
I must purchase said publication. I will not sleep until I find it ;-)
> b. The hue in pictures 10 to 18 (Frances Voy) resembles strongly that of
> 'Mayfair' of the 1970's or early 1980's.
>
You nailed this one on the button. I have some scans to post this weekend
that will clear this up. (see above)
> c. The pictures 21 to 27 (Sunshine Girl) give no hint (to me) of the
> origin.
>
> d. What ever was in pictures 9, 19, 20, 24, 26, or beyond 27 is unknown
> to me; I don't have them.
>
> I have put this series under 'Alan Sass' for many years ago, but also
> put (into parenthesis) the name 'Roy Brewington'. Where did that name
> come up, I really cannot recall anymore.
>
Roy Brewington is the fellow credited with the photographs comprising the
lady in question's Mayfair shoots, both in the 1978 and 1979 editions
(see above).
>
> About the information in Paul Raymond Publications (of the U.K.)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------- namely:
> Men Only, Club International, Mayfair, etc.
>
> The publisher is notorious of using numerous nicks even for a single
> photographer. The intention seems to be 'a domestic photographer, right
> from next door'. The same applies most certainly to the model names,
> unless in rare occasions Frenchness, or alike, is believed to sell
> better. The same seemed to be true with Mayfair as well, also before it
> was annexed to the PR publications around 1990, or so. As an example:
> the works of a well known French photographer Jean-Pierre Bourgeois have
> been credited repeatedly in the pages of PRP to: John Patrick Burgess,
> Patrick Burgess, Peter Burgess, Michael Moore, Michel Moreau, Michelle
> Moreau, and who knows what else.
>
> Alan Sass is a well known German photographer, having also dedicated
> website of his own (or at least had in 2002, when I last checked). There
> has been some pictorials in PRP (or in the ancient Mayfair) credited to
> him, so let's believe in that.
>
Thanks, I was previously unfamiliar with his name. I have a Japanese
photobook en-route with some pictures credited to him, I don't know what
they look like. They are contained in an issue of "Super Nude", perhaps
they are the mystery "Sunshine Girl" pics. I will post further
information/ photos as becomes available. I look forward to reviewing
more of his work in the future.
> Searching for 'Roy Brewington' in internet returns mostly references to
> PRP, or other similarily cheating magazines, and I have strong doubts
> that the guy doesn't exist at all, but is purely a nick of someone
> hiding his true identity (maybe Alan Sass?). Bluntly: I cannot be sure
> of that. Maybe I'm wrong. Make further excavations into the net, and
> judge for yourself.
>
I agree, this is probably an alias used by the photographer for Mayfair.
Whether it is Alan Sass will likely remain a mystery...
>
> About the information in Japanese books
> --------------------------------------- namely: Lolita Märchen, Kitty
> Island, etc.
>
> The way the Japanese spell foreign names in their domestic writing
> system is far from perfect, due to the unsurmountable differences in the
> phonetic structure between Japanese and most European languages. Most
> importantly:
> 1. Japanese doesn't have a sound for 'L'; it's replaced with 'R'. 2.
> Japanese syllable cannot end with any other consonant but -n; this has
> been overcome in foreign words by using a u-ending syllabary in place of
> any other ending consonant of the original language.
>
> Spelling being rather arbitrary recognizing the foreign names in
> Japanese writing is very much a guesswork. If you know a number of
> possible names, such as famous photographers', it's not that difficult,
> although. For other names, such as the very likely fictitious ones of
> models, it is often impossible to fetch the intended name correctly.
>
> 'Re-romajizing' (=relatinizing) the information given in the first
> picture (fila_cover, originally lm-17 of Lolita Märchen) I find the
> following data:
>
> 1. The model's name is spelled as [fu-i-ra ra-n-de-ru] which stands
> most likely for 'Fila Lander'. Possible other interpretations might be
> Fira, Huira, Huila, Wila or Wira, and Landel, Randel, or Rander; also
> Länder if diacritics were lost in space. I have never heard of a given
> name Fila, Fira, or others mentioned in any other circumstances, so the
> correctness of it is rather questionable.
>
I very much enjoyed reading the above paragraphs. I am envious of your
knowledge related to the Japanese language.
> 2. The photographer is stated to be [a-ra-n sa-su]; that is quite
> clearly 'Alan Sass'.
>
> 3. The model is said to be sixteen years of age (at the time of
> shooting, possibly true).
>
> 4. Model's birthday is stated as 1968-2-13, or February 13, 1968. Most
> likely incorrect, at least the year.
>
Based on the information published in Mayfair's July 1978 issue I place
her birth date sometime in 1962, at the latest. This is based on the
publishing date of the magazine and their claim of her being 17 for the
spread. Further, she appeared as a 'page 3' girl at the age of 16 in
1978, she is clearly younger in this photograph than in the Mayfair
shoot. I will post it (page 3) this weekend so you can judge for
yourself. Granted these dates could be as fictitious as those provided in
the Japanese publications, however the birth date certainly is not more
recent than 1962.
> The publisher wanted to make the impression (in 1984) that the pictures
> were new, not five or ten years old. So all the models' true ages at the
> time of actual photography were recalculated backwards from 1984, giving
> birthdays often very far from truth.
> This is very clear with Eva Ionesco, who was 12 years old when
> photographed by Jacques Bourboulon in 1977. The book tells her year of
> birth being 1970, but she was really born in 1965, in Paris to be sure.
>
> Otherwise it seems that most of the data given in Lolita Märchen is
> correct, so let's believe in it. (At least Eva Ionesco, Jacques
> Bourboulon, and Alan Sass are true names of true, living persons.)
>
>
> The Conclusion
> --------------
>
> The Model: Fila Lander (or something sounding similar; not Frances Voy,
> or anything similar). A nationality does exist, definitely a Sunshine
> Girl.
>
I will respectfully differ with you on this point. Based on my extensive
research I find no reference to the Fila handle. I have found many
references to Frances Voy, they are all related to the lady in question.
Granted this could also be an alias, however I will accept it as the only
name I am likely to find. Since it appears in multiple publications it is
more likely to be correct than the single instance of Fila (in my
opinion).
Nationality is British, she is claimed to be from Sutton (ref:Mayfair).
Also see attached research at bottom, likely the name you mention was
"Landa Fila", as in Fila(family name), Landa(given name). Often "western"
names seem to be in the wrong order when written by the Japanese (I
understand why).
> The Photographer: Alan Sass, of Germany.
>
I am unfamiliar with his work so unable to compare the styles. I am
willing to take your word for it :-)
> The Age: Sweet Lil' Sixteen, indeed.
>
More probably (almost as sweet) seventeen.
> The Birthday: Possibly February 13th, unknown year, before 1969.
>
Month unknown, during or before 1962.
> The Date of Shooting: Before 1985.
>
Agreed, but also before July 1978.
> The Place of Shooting: Mediterranean surroundings, might well be Ibiza.
> Even the shoes resemble a lot the notorious shoes of M. Bourboulon.
>
I agree, this seems likely.
> So, what is the truth? Really?
>
> - - -
> The book 'Lolita Märchen' is very interesting, not only for its
> photography, but also for the enigmatic, but possibly true, information
> given within it. Some of the misinterpreted data has lead to the widely
> and wildly spread misnaming of a very popular Hamilton/Bourboulon model
> of yesteryears in this very newsgroup: not 'Amanda' but Sabine.
>
Thanks indeed! I somehow never made the connection. I am certainly
familiar with Sabine from "Bilitis", as well as the so-called Amanda
pictures by Bourboulon. Considering they are two of my favorites I am
unable to account for my failure to realize it was the same young lady!
How embarrassing ... ;-)
> That's an other story, however. Read the message following soon!
>
I can't wait, I certainly enjoyed reading this one! I look forward to
continuing our conversation, friend.
>
> Best regards
>
> Eloi Morlock
> @kweendom.com
>
>
And best wishes to you
Pvt.Panic
> P.S. This newsgroup was founded on the first day of December of 1998. A
> decennial is coming, soon. Do we celebrate it, and how? (in addition to
> consuming a large Cognac on proper date)
P.S. I will join you (in spirit) in a Cognac! I have something special in
mind, but doubt I will make it for 12/1/08, more likely 01/01/09. I still
have many, many hours of work ahead of me in preparation for my very-on-
topic ~10,000 image post. It will be very good but it will be late.
_________________________________________________________________________
*Additional research included below;
_________________________________________________________________________
Frances Voy Pictorials;
The Sun: sometime in 1978
Frances Way (page 3 pictorial)
MAYFAIR MAGAZINE: Vol 13 No 7: July 1978
Frances Voy (cover + 13 picture pictorial, including the centre spread)
MAYFAIR MAGAZINE: Vol 14 No 6: June 1979
Frances Voy (14 pics including centre spread)
MAYFAIR MAGAZINE: Vol 14 No 9: September 1979
Frances Voy (not verified, doubtful)
MAYFAIR MAGAZINE: Vol 14 No 12: December 1979
Frances Voy (rehash of the year's center spreads)
The Best of Mayfair No. 3
London, Fisk Publishing Co. Ltd. 1983
Cheri Magazine: unknown issue, unverified
Genesis Magazine: Vol 7 No 7: February 1980
Sandra O'Quinn (cover only)
Genesis Magazine: Vol 7 No 8: March 1980
Sandra O'Quinn, Age 23(?) (pictorial)
_________________________________________________________________________
Family Name: Fila
Statistics for Fila:
* Fila is the 39756th most common family name in the United States
* Fila occurs 520 times in the most recent US Census (2000)
o 0.19 out of every 100,000 people in the United States have
the family name Fila
o 95.58% are White
o 0% are Black
o 2.31% are Hispanic (any)
o 0% are Asian / Pacific Islander
o 0% are American Indian / Native American
o 0% are Two or More
Girls Name: Landa
Information for Landa:
* Origin: Spanish
* Meaning: Reference to the Virgin Mary
* Sex: Female
Boys Name: Lander
Information for Lander:
* Origin: English
* Meaning: From the grassy plain
* Sex: Male
_________________________________________________________________________
*Additional conversations/ comments by others included below;
_________________________________________________________________________
Hi Bill
As you probably know FV appears on the cover of Genesis Vol.7, no.7,
but the pictorial is actually in no.8. You can order both at
usedmagazines.com.
Frances is id'd as "23 year-old Sandra O'Quinn", so someone has
clearly got their dates wrong!!! By my reckoning FV was at best
only 'barely legal' for US mags at the time.
The pictorial is not bad - slightly more raunchy and revealing than
the two Mayfair appearances. Some of the photos were clearly taken
on the same sets as the last Mayfair pics, same photographer also -
Roy Brewington. Unfortunately I don't have a scanner so can't post
any pics at present...
I didn't know she'd been in Cheri also. Any idea which issue?
Best wishes
Soren
Thanks Soren for the exact issue of Genesis. I have loaded a copy
of the cover of Vol 7/7 in Photos, and I shall obtain a copy of 7/8
to scan.
Are any of the photos from the set already in Photos in the Group?
I have never seen the issue of Cheri, but it was reported in a
discussion on another group that there were photos of FV in the US
Cheri back in the late 70s.
I am curious as to where some of the photos in this Group originally
came from: I have simply copied them from other sites. I shall
progressively clean-up of some of them with some clever software I
have.
Ideal scenario would be to contact Roy Brewington and obtain
originals..
Bill
Hi Bill
Yahoo has really gone crazy. It keeps deleting my reply but
reposting the rest of the message, so sorry for the confusion.
What I wrote was... some of the shots in the Genesis pictorial were
clearly taken on the same set as the 'stripes' pics in Mayfair vol.
14 no. 6, but I have never seen these pics reproduced on the net
ANYWHERE, so this would be a real first!
I have only ever seen 'actual' photos of FV in Mayfair, Genesis and
Page three, so some of the pics posted here and elsewhere are a
mystery to me - but very welcome just the same.
Info for Sun/Page 3 enthusiasts:
16 year-old Frances HOY!?!? featured in an article in the Sun, 19
Aug. 1977, headlined 'Would you let your 16 year-old daughter become
a model?' Includes two 'fashion' pics (fully clothed, I'm afraid).
A few weeks later (3 Sept. 1977) Frances WOY!?!? (still 16) appeared
topless on page 3. I don't know if she ever appeared on page 3
again or if they ever got her name right, although Mayfair 13.7 the
following year calls her a 'page three favourite'!
If you have never seen these pics, don't sweat about it, they are
not that exciting. I only have a couple of very poor quality
photocopies but if you are really desperate, you can order back
copies of English newspapers at http://www.remember-when.co.uk.
I have never thought of trying to contact Roy Brewington (is he
still alive) but might try when I have some time if I can think of
where to start!?
Happy Voy-eurism!
S
_________________________________________________________________________
What happened to Frances Voy...
As far as I recall, she was supposed to have packed in modelling when
she got married circa 1979/80ish (I think I read that in Mayfair back
then).
_________________________________________________________________________
She did some page 3 stuff during 1977/78 I do remember.
Some stuff I never saw before (two sets) turned up on a SmartGroups
web site last year. I thought she'd had a daughter, but it was her,
presumably before 1980ish.
I wonder what she did since she appeared to stop modelling.
Best regards,
fireteamdj
_________________________________________________________________________
I remember some of her pictures in a German mag. According to this
mag, she was French... He he he.
_________________________________________________________________________
apparently gave up the old nudey modelling at 17/18 when she got engaged.
Shame really.
_________________________________________________________________________
|
|