In article <fo0724te3lumjuf841uo35tgrp7fr0i1iq@4ax.com>,
HMS Victor Victorian <VictorVictorian@NBG.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 08 May 2008 20:13:07 GMT, the non <myaddress@server.co> wrote:
>
> >In article <joh624hbfoeurctuh7kn5ceegkj9nvfqbq@4ax.com>,
> > HMS Victor Victorian <VictorVictorian@NBG.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 7 May 2008 23:26:08 +0000 (UTC), floppy@flop.com wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Mon, 05 May 2008 20:00:01 +0000, HMS Victor Victorian wrote:
> >> >
> >> >I'd assumed that guy had already been caught - apparently not. They took
> >> >a long time to get on his case, those images have been around a while I
> >> >believe. And yes, the kids appeared to be having a ball by all accounts.
> >> >
> >> >As I understand it, sexual contact between men and boys in certain parts
> >> >of the Asia was traditionally considered more a matter for a joke than
> >> >a lynching, or so I have read. Silly old men chasing little boys.
> >> >
> >> >Boys couldn't get pregant, and different standards of what constitutes
> >> >"impurity" were/are applied to boy than the much more serious standards
> >> >applied to girls. Or it was institutionalized and sactioned in some
> >> >other places, such as those dancing boys in parts of Java.
> >> >
> >> >Then the NGOs arrived in Asia chasing overseas aid funding. First they
> >> >said: "you pedos say this culture tolerates and even understands your
> >> >desire to do stuff with little boys. Wrong! They do not tolerate it at
> >> >all, it is frowned upon!". There was something very like this on the
> >> >ECPAT website in the late 1990s. Yet at the same time, they conceded
> >> >that child prostitution was always driven and sustained by local demand;
> >> >sex tourism had and has a very small part to play economically in
> >> >thay business. But catching sex tourists gets a lot more headlines,
> >> >more headlines mean more beat up, more beat up means more funding
> >> >for NGOs. NGOs are businesses, not charities. Hence the claims on
> >> >the Inquisition website that NGOs in Cambodia are actively paying
> >> >taxi drivers and others to turn in customers interested in minors.
> >> >They have also bribed witnesses to otain convictions in that country
> >> >(some false withnesses have recanted and told about this).
> >> >
> >> >By the early 2000s. ECPAT had given up saying it wasn't really tolerated.
> >> >Instead, they publically berated and *chastized* the people of Cambodia
> >> >for their "apathy" concerning sex with minors. In other words, it
> >> >seemed they actually didn't care very much after all! Many Cambodians
> >> >tolerated a certain amount of this activity, always had, in fact it
> >> >has been embedded throughout much of Asia in one form or another for
> >> >thousands of years. Then there's large parts of South Asia where men
> >> >have been loving boys for countless thousands of years.
> >> >
> >> >Thus ends another rant. Probably no-one except VV, the trolls and the
> >> >police are reading it.
> >>
> >> Quite correct. Please feel free to "rant on." It appears our
> >> honorary troll mascot for the Galleries has neglected to read your
> >> essay, which is understandable considering his cognitive preference
> >> for single syllable words.
> >>
> >> I find it curious that there is very little discussion regarding the
> >> history and ubiquitousness of Boy Love among western English speaking
> >> countries. Aside from certain references to Lewis Carroll, for
> >> example, there appears to be very little to be found regarding it.
> >> That Boy Lovers might, however lacking in discretion, may seek
> >> companionship on shores less radicalised is perfectly predictable, but
> >> I will state my deep suspicion that if Boy Lovers from western
> >> societies that so repress Boy Love, not to mention sexual expression
> >> in general, were NOT seeking this companionship abroad, these agencies
> >> would have considerably less concern as to what was going on in
> >> Bangkok [no pun intended]. There are paedophiles throughout the
> >> world, probably in every culture. So, pray tell, has anyone seen a
> >> desperate INTERPOL request to hunt down an individual from some
> >> non-western society? Yet no expense is apparently spared in dragging
> >> some bloody Brit or American before the bar.
> >>
> >> Damnable hypocrites, for they care less for the welfare of children
> >> than they do for restraining members of their own society.
> >>
> >> My best regards,
> >>
> >> Victor
> >>
> >> God Save the Queen!
> >> God Preserve the Prince of Wales!
> >> Rule Britannia!
> >
> >They also have no knowledge of their own history. In the 1850s there
> >were "peg houses" openly operating in San Francisco. In the 17th
> >century, most families in England were too poor to support their
> >children so out they went at about age ten, girls to indentured domestic
> >servitude, boys to apprenticeships. However, many were simply chucked
> >out as there were alleged to be fewer than 40,000 families in all of
> >England who could support their children. Of those sold into servitude
> >(and yes, they were sold), many had bad masters and ran away. Those
> >children gravitated into child/juvenile gangs that lived by theft for
> >the most part. Do people today think that Dickens made up the plot of
> >"Oliver Twist"? He was more of a reporter than a novelist.
> >
> >As for other cultures from which we draw out roots, the ancient Jews
> >were notorious paederasts, crossing over to the Temple of Baal at night
> >to frolic with the priest/catamites that infested the temple for small
> >fees. Moses was most pissed off by that, because those Jews weren't
> >making little Jews.
> >
> >The pirates of the 17th and 18th centuries were also notorious
> >paederasts -- what do you thing the duties of the cabin boys were? In
> >feudal Japan the samurais preferred boys to anything else, and that
> >tradition continued in Japan into the modern era, particularly at
> >travelers' inns.
> >
> >Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos as well as mainland China have had
> >centuries of traditions mixing men, boys and lubrication. In primitive
> >cultures of the south seas, Africa and South America, some cultures were
> >wide open to childhood sexuality, and even had formalized annual
> >paederastic traditions (the long houses where the young initiates lived
> >were a "window" for adults to fornicate with the boys for that one time
> >each year). It is interesting that primitive cultures that did not
> >conceal adult sexuality from children, and did not suppress childhood
> >sexuality, produced adult cultures in which fidelity prevailed, without
> >theft, aggression or other violence -- but primitive cultures that
> >concealed adult sexuality and prevented children from sexual play and
> >expression, developed adult societies much like our own -- rife with
> >violence, infidelity and crime. Too bad we have missed the message.
> >
> >As for CP on the Internet, in whatever form, people are interested for a
> >variety of reasons. But it should be clear even to a child of tender
> >age that of the hundreds of thousands of people (both men and women) who
> >collect and view images, almost none of them are child molesters or ever
> >will be. In part, because of the benign outlet passive imagery
> >provides. The scary thing is that if LEA is successful in totally
> >suppressing CP, at least some of those people who are happily looking at
> >the computer screens will hit the streets actively looking for scores
> >that they would not normally consider, fantasy and looking at pictures
> >being disease, blackmail or other forms of personal endangerment. As
> >for the subjects of the photos, claims that they are "damaged" are
> >vastly overstated. A child MIGHT be, SOME children might be, but ANY
> >child is definitely not, nor are MOST children so harmed. They are
> >simply having a great time with someone they like and trust.
>
> I'd like to offer a short observation at this point.
>
> First, large scale societies, in contrast to small scale aka primitive
> societies, generally devalue the individual. The larger the society,
> the less valued the individual, because they are seen as individually
> expendable.
>
> Your comments regarding "primitive sexuality" reminded me of a rather
> humourous story I once read in an ethnography about the Yanomami tribe
> of Venezuela. The anthropologist doing the study in the Yanomami
> village, a woman by the way, was walking along during siesta time, as
> it were, and came upon a young father sitting against a post holding
> his dozing three year old son across his lap.
>
> Now, with the exception of a waist strap, both father and son were as
> naked as babes. The anthropologist noted that the father was
> serenading his son not with a lullaby, but by slowly masturbating the
> lad's penis, which soon became approvingly erect. Certainly the
> little boy was enjoying the attention ... and, as it became very
> apparent to the outside observer, so was the father, who was beginning
> to have an erection as well!
>
> Now in Yanomami culture, so I am given to understand, no breach of
> modesty or etiquette is made as long as the man's foreskin continues
> to conceal. So, quite nonchalantly, the father looked right up at the
> anthropologist with a smile and proclaimed, "He'll have lots of sex
> with women when he grows up!"
>
> Priceless! God only knows who INTERPOL might try to arrest first! And
> dearest FORBID our studious ethnographer took pictures!
>
> Always quite nice to hear from you, the Non.
>
> Victor
Margaret Mead observed the same thing in Samoa, parents (mostly mothers)
masturbating their infants (both sexes) when they were fussy, or when
the needed to go to sleep.
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